Big Blue Huddle

Here's another interesting metric along the same lines

Week 7-  PFF had the Giants' O-line ranked dead last

Week 13-  PFF has the Giants' line 27th

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 30, 2023, 09:38:39 AMIt's odd how some people will cite exceptions to create rules.  99% of the time, QB play is negatively impacted by pressure (as Wink says, pressure breaks pipes).  It truly astonishes me that some fans claim pressure doesn't cause problems for a QB.  Any proper review of stats and metrics will clearly demonstrate that isn't the case.

My rules for utilizing statistics

1) Do not utilize a small number of statistical exceptions to draw a conclusion.

2) Do not draw a conclusion from a statistical result without understanding that other factors unknown to you may be impacting positively or negatively that statistical result. 

Quote from: Philosophers on November 29, 2023, 10:16:22 PMI am not saying DJ has good or bad processing speed.  I don't know but I also think no fan knows.

I don't know? I didn't watch Tyrod throw to players who I never heard any kind of announcer call their name out before? I.e. Hyatt?

I never saw Slayton catch a 20+ yard pass since like Eli Manning was here.

But sure I don't know a QB who is clearly making faster decisions with the ball.

Quote from: Fletch on November 30, 2023, 11:33:32 AMI don't know? I didn't watch Tyrod throw to players who I never heard any kind of announcer call their name out before? I.e. Hyatt?

I never saw Slayton catch a 20+ yard pass since like Eli Manning was here.

But sure I don't know a QB who is clearly making faster decisions with the ball.

You (nor anyone) don't know all the things going into a successful or unsuccessful play as it is happening too quickly with too many moving parts and factors.  You are watching it from one camera angle.

Quote from: Philosophers on November 30, 2023, 11:22:39 AMMy rules for utilizing statistics

1) Do not utilize a small number of statistical exceptions to draw a conclusion.

2) Do not draw a conclusion from a statistical result without understanding that other factors unknown to you may be impacting positively or negatively that statistical result. 

Those are pretty good rules.  My rule is to look at the stats BEFORE drawing conclusions, not look for stats or examples that support your conclusion.

Hell, I often look to the exceptions as a way to challenge a rule or assumption, but I don't look to exceptions to create the rule.

I also enjoy reading or listening to well-founded views that don't match my own.  It gives me a chance to see if I have some bad assumptions or if I need to rework my conclusions.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 30, 2023, 11:12:52 AMHere's another interesting metric along the same lines

Week 7-  PFF had the Giants' O-line ranked dead last

Week 13-  PFF has the Giants' line 27th

Rich: To that I can only say, "Whoop-de-doo!"  lol

Tommy has the ultimate stat so far

Win Baby Win!!!  Just win

I was really getting sick of my team losing and getting crushed doing it

Quote from: BluesCruz on November 30, 2023, 01:25:34 PMTommy has the ultimate stat so far

Win Baby Win!!!  Just win

I was really getting sick of my team losing and getting crushed doing it

If things continue like this, and Daboll does not let Tommy finish the season he should be fired.  Let Wink run the team
We have one more meaningful game with Philly...Man would I like to turn the tables on them

Think we should hold off on that for now, I mean after all you wanted Davis Webb to start the playoff game last year. Let's let the guy that gets paid to make football decisions make them.

As far as Jones, weren't there multiple videos at the beginning of the year of people clowning him because he wasn't even doing basic rookie things like sliding protections on a free blitzers?

A bad Qb has a tendency to make the team around him look much worse than they are.

Has the oline gotten marginally better? Yes probably so but the Qb play has also gotten better which also helps with that.

If you look at Jones, the journeyman, and the undrafted rookies stats blind, Jones is likely Qb 3 which is comical because he makes 8× more than the journeyman a year and 53× the rookie.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 30, 2023, 02:17:00 PMThink we should hold off on that for now, I mean after all you wanted Davis Webb to start the playoff game last year. Let's let the guy that gets paid to make football decisions make them.

That guy has struck out on his decisions at QB so far. Just sayin'... 

Quote from: T200 on November 30, 2023, 04:53:37 PMThat guy has struck out on his decisions at QB so far. Just sayin'... 

I think the media/fan base is more to blame than he is. After all he didn't give him the 5th year option and once last season was over the media and a large majority wanted him back at all cost despite his pedestrian numbers. At the end of last season the fan base would have been furious if we signed Mayfield, or minshew over retaining Jones even though it was the right thing to do. So schoen did the best he could by resigning Jones bc there was nothing else out there, and then creating the escape latch likely knowing the end result.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 30, 2023, 05:24:56 PMI think the media/fan base is more to blame than he is. After all he didn't give him the 5th year option and once last season was over the media and a large majority wanted him back at all cost despite his pedestrian numbers. At the end of last season the fan base would have been furious if we signed Mayfield, or minshew over retaining Jones even though it was the right thing to do. So schoen did the best he could by resigning Jones bc there was nothing else out there, and then creating the escape latch likely knowing the end result.

Sorry, J... can't roll with you on that one. He's getting paid the big bucks to make the right decisions. He's been O-fer on the QB front. The media and fans aren't to blame. Sure, there would have been grumblings but as long as his plan works, he gets the credit. If it doesn't work, he gets the blame.

My kids used to get mad at me because they didn't agree with my decisions at times. Oh well... I'm the parent and it's ultimately my call. And we all have to live with it.

And just to be clear, I was 100% with him on not picking up the 5th year option and the new contract. So, I'm not casting stones... just calling it as I see it. I can afford to be wrong; Joe can't.   

This is a serious question and I genuinely mean no disrespect to anyone:

Do people really not see that Taylor and DeVito have gotten far better protection than DJ? Forget anything the QB is doing. Can you not evaluate that? If you can't, listen to Bobby Skinner's OL breakdowns etc., he's not a professional but he can at least give you some idea what you're looking at.

Otherwise, it should be fairly obvious - the eye test backs up the chart. It was historically bad protection. What was the stat opening week? It was the most pressure a QB had ever faced in a single game since they started recording the stat.

They're just ordinary bad now. They were arguably the worst OL anyone had ever seen earlier.

Quote from: 4 Aces on November 30, 2023, 07:55:32 PMThis is a serious question and I genuinely mean no disrespect to anyone:

Do people really not see that Taylor and DeVito have gotten far better protection than DJ? Forget anything the QB is doing. Can you not evaluate that? If you can't, listen to Bobby Skinner's OL breakdowns etc., he's not a professional but he can at least give you some idea what you're looking at.

Otherwise, it should be fairly obvious - the eye test backs up the chart. It was historically bad protection. What was the stat opening week? It was the most pressure a QB had ever faced in a single game since they started recording the stat.

They're just ordinary bad now. They were arguably the worst OL anyone had ever seen earlier.

Yes we see the difference in the protection, but the difference in the protection isn't enough to justify horrible play. The protection went from 32nd to 27th, which is better but only marginally.  Now look at what a franchise Qb should be able to do for an offense vs an undrafted free agent and the gap shouldn't be that small.

Tyrod had a guy on his couch the week before instead of Jones having ezeudu so that should be a good eye test to show that something is wrong with the starting Qb.

The problem is that this is who Jones has been even last year the staff just masked it well. He got away with 180 yard games that we had no business winning but did. Jones is horrible at progressions, and scanning the field, on top of having a horrible clock and a refusal to look beyond 6 yards down the field.

Jones was still going to be Jones no matter who was in at oline which is the problem. If Jones was 100% healthy right now I would take Devito and Taylor over him. At least I know the football will go beyond 10 yards with them and we would have at minimum a slightly average offense.