Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 11, 2023, 09:41:35 AMIt's very difficult for me to put together a list.  There were many shows I loved at the time, but they don't hold up to my aging over the decades.  There are also shows that had a few good seasons but dropped off over time and lost what made them special (sometimes, this happened in only a season).  Sometimes a series wasn't that great, but there were individual episodes or skits that were truly brilliant.  Some great shows were canceled after only a season or two.

I really struggle to just list 20 because of all those factors.

Rich: I get it but you reminded me... mine hold up well today FOR ME (even quirky Northern Exposure for example).

But I have already seen it in the context of my age/life when I first watched it, so I recall that information and have it to use as a reference point.

It's tough to gauge how others (especially those of a different age and experience level) watching a relatively old TV show today might view it in the context of THEIR lives, if you see what I mean.

Bob

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 10, 2023, 08:05:39 PMA few things I notice on this thread:

1 - Rich started this thread, but he hasn't added his list...

2 - No one (except moi), had "Lost" or "Blacklist" on their list, two of my favorite series of all time, although I admit, "Lost" was lost after the 5th season, but prior to that, show was phenomenal

3 - I should have added "Beverly Hillbillies", "Gilligan's Island", "The Bob Newhart Show", and "All in the Family" to my list. Getting old sucks and I forget the things that used to make me happy and excited for the show to come on. I especially can't believe I didn't have "Ozark" on my list   

4 - Must be no one loves Lucy...LOL (I didn't either, too over the top)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTu8iDynwNc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WYdUaK54fU

There should be a special place in hell for the showrunners of LOST.  That was a great series and one of the true water cooler series.   It ended so badly that I want the hours of my life I spent watching and talking about the show back! 

The only defense I can offer is that keeping something a mystery can be dangerous.   The problem is that if you play up the mystery well enough, the reveal will inevitably disappoint as people's imaginations will be better than that of the writers. 

Here are some shows I enjoyed but weren't listed

Get Smart
Police Squad
Firefly
WKRP in Cincinnati
Frasier
Chernobyl
Soap
Happy Days
Columbo
Mystery Science Theater 3000
Psych
Home Improvement
Night Court
Green Acres
 

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 11, 2023, 11:12:45 AMHere are some shows I enjoyed but weren't listed

Get Smart
Police Squad
Firefly
WKRP in Cincinnati
Frasier
Chernobyl
Soap
Happy Days
Columbo
Mystery Science Theater 3000
Psych
Home Improvement
Night Court
Green Acres
 

I knew I'd forget some lol

 It's funny, really, that many of the lists are mostly are of comedies. I guess many remember those more than others. Myself, I love a good comedy but overall, give me a good drama series and I can't wait for the following week, and I'm happy.

Another show I should have included (yes, 30 may soon be the 20 of yesterday), is Have Gun Will Travel. maybe the first adult-type western.
If memory holds and it usually doesn't, it was on Saturday night.

In my personal opinion, the caliber of TV (ie TV series and miniseries) has absolutely skyrocketed in the last 25 years or so. Shows that were huge in the 70s and 80s (Mash, Charlie's Angels, Happy Days, etc) would be flops today. Even Cheers would be IMO. And I don't think the opposite would be the case. Meaning, I think a 1970s audience would like today's top television series more than the other way around. Obviously this is subjective, but given it's human nature to tend to think the older stuff (in any area of life) was better than the way they do things now, I think it's noteworthy how much better TV has gotten.

A big part of that is the reality that there are now so many more options for TV. When I was a kid, before cable you basically had 13 channels total - that was it. And then even when cable first came out, it was pretty basic. Now, with so many more options, the industry has invested a lot more into it and the caliber of content it puts out.

Meanwhile, movies have declined significantly versus what they were in the 90s and earlier. There are still great movies being made, but they are way fewer and farther between nowadays. When I was a kid in the 80s and early 90s, I used to go to the movies on weekends usually two or three times a month, and there were always tons of solid options. Now you're lucky if you get two or three truly very good American-made movies a year.

So I think it's noteworthy that the two mediums have sort of flipped spots. Whereas TV was considered the lower level medium before the turn of the century (roughly), and movies were considered much better, I feel like the opposite is the case now. It is interesting how it has all developed.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 11, 2023, 10:36:36 AMThere should be a special place in hell for the showrunners of LOST.  That was a great series and one of the true water cooler series.  It ended so badly that I want the hours of my life I spent watching and talking about the show back! 

The only defense I can offer is that keeping something a mystery can be dangerous.  The problem is that if you play up the mystery well enough, the reveal will inevitably disappoint as people's imaginations will be better than that of the writers. 

You are so right about that. The mystery was so intense, that there was no way to end it in a way that would satisfy viewers...and they way they ended it was as disappointing as it could possibly be. But man, what a ride for a few years

I've read that the reason they played it out how they did, was because of a previous blockbuster series that enthralled everyone, was the bizarre David Lynch mind-bender, Twin Peaks. Like Lost, it was so captivating that it was - as you say - the "water cooler" discussions across America for of the decade. The writers of Lost admitted that they used Twin Peaks as the format as well as, "what to do and what not to do". With Twin Peaks, there was a mystery so intense that it held the audience with a death grip. But once they revealed the killer in the second season, it was essentially over. But Twin Peaks tried to keep it going with new ideas and mysteries that paled in comparison to the first season and a half. As such, the show dwindled down to nothing. They even tried to make a followup movie (Fire Walk With Me) that was about as bad a movie as could be. Utterly unwatchable. Then they tried to bring it back with Twin Peaks 2, yet another bust not worth watching

The writers of Lost decided that they didn't want to lose their captive audience by revealing too much too soon and end up like Twin Peaks. Both shows kept the largest audiences of their time with a strangle hold that wouldn't let go. My suggestion to anyone who wishes to watch Twin Peaks - DON'T GOOGLE WHO KILLED LAURA PALMER, and just enjoy the show. Don't watch the movie or the second version of Twin Peaks. The original show was the apex of Lynch's career as a writer, right down to the music written for the show. Watch the first episode and you'll be hooked like a bass that swallowed the treble hook

Incredible cast with Kyle MacLachlan (Agent Cooper) for which he won the Golden Globe Award for Best Actor in a Television Series, Sherilyn Fenn (Audrey Home - devious, hi-libido, ultra-naughty teen with an penchant for trouble), Lara Flynn Boyle (the town sweetheart married to a horrible truck driver with a huge anger problem), Heather Graham when she was young, and a stellar performance by one of my favorite actors (may he RIP), Miguel Ferrer (an overbearing, hugely insulting FBI big, who comes to town to clean up a mess that's too big and complicated to do...lol

Like Lost (Breaking Bad, Ozark, etc.), it captures attention like few shows can. Watch a half hour of the first episode and you'll see why it's addictive. Just don't spoil it by looking up anything on Google and enjoy the ride (it's only streaming on Paramount+)

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 11, 2023, 01:36:32 PMIn my personal opinion, the caliber of TV (ie TV series and miniseries) has absolutely skyrocketed in the last 25 years or so. Shows that were huge in the 70s and 80s (Mash, Charlie's Angels, Happy Days, etc) would be flops today. Even Cheers would be IMO. And I don't think the opposite would be the case. Meaning, I think a 1970s audience would like today's top television series more than the other way around. Obviously this is subjective, but given it's human nature to tend to think the older stuff (in any area of life) was better than the way they do things now, I think it's noteworthy how much better TV has gotten.

A big part of that is the reality that there are now so many more options for TV. When I was a kid, before cable you basically had 13 channels total - that was it. And then even when cable first came out, it was pretty basic. Now, with so many more options, the industry has invested a lot more into it and the caliber of content it puts out.

Meanwhile, movies have declined significantly versus what they were in the 90s and earlier. There are still great movies being made, but they are way fewer and farther between nowadays. When I was a kid in the 80s and early 90s, I used to go to the movies on weekends usually two or three times a month, and there were always tons of solid options. Now you're lucky if you get two or three truly very good American-made movies a year.

So I think it's noteworthy that the two mediums have sort of flipped spots. Whereas TV was considered the lower level medium before the turn of the century (roughly), and movies were considered much better, I feel like the opposite is the case now. It is interesting how it has all developed.

You had it good compared to me...I had ONE channel (CBS), but could get static riddled NBC on a UHF channel if I wanted to go up on the roof and move the antenae until someone told me "right there". So rarely saw anything that wasn't on CBS until I was out of high school 

But to your point, TV has definitely taken over movies as favored media

BTW...did anyone ever watch Becker? I loved that show

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 11, 2023, 01:53:12 PMYou are so right about that. The mystery was so intense, that there was no way to end it in a way that would satisfy viewers...and they way they ended it was as disappointing as it could possibly be. But man, what a ride for a few years

I've read that the reason they played it out how they did, was because of a previous blockbuster series that enthralled everyone, was the bizarre David Lynch mind-bender, Twin Peaks. Like Lost, it was so captivating that it was - as you say - the "water cooler" discussions across America for of the decade. The writers of Lost admitted that they used Twin Peaks as the format as well as, "what to do and what not to do". With Twin Peaks, there was a mystery so intense that it held the audience with a death grip. But once they revealed the killer in the second season, it was essentially over. But Twin Peaks tried to keep it going with new ideas and mysteries that paled in comparison to the first season and a half. As such, the show dwindled down to nothing. They even tried to make a followup movie (Fire Walk With Me) that was about as bad a movie as could be. Utterly unwatchable. Then they tried to bring it back with Twin Peaks 2, yet another bust not worth watching

The writers of Lost decided that they didn't want to lose their captive audience by revealing too much too soon and end up like Twin Peaks. Both shows kept the largest audiences of their time with a strangle hold that wouldn't let go. My suggestion to anyone who wishes to watch Twin Peaks - DON'T GOOGLE WHO KILLED LAURA PALMER, and just enjoy the show. Don't watch the movie or the second version of Twin Peaks. The original show was the apex of Lynch's career as a writer, right down to the music written for the show. Watch the first episode and you'll be hooked like a bass that swallowed the treble hook

Incredible cast with Kyle MacLachlan (Agent Cooper) for which he won the Golden Globe Award for Best Actor in a Television Series, Sherilyn Fenn (Audrey Home - devious, hi-libido, ultra-naughty teen with an penchant for trouble), Lara Flynn Boyle (the town sweetheart married to a horrible truck driver with a huge anger problem), Heather Graham when she was young, and a stellar performance by one of my favorite actors (may he RIP), Miguel Ferrer (an overbearing, hugely insulting FBI big, who comes to town to clean up a mess that's too big and complicated to do...lol

Like Lost (Breaking Bad, Ozark, etc.), it captures attention like few shows can. Watch a half hour of the first episode and you'll see why it's addictive. Just don't spoil it by looking up anything on Google and enjoy the ride (it's only streaming on Paramount+)

Quote from: LennG on December 11, 2023, 01:21:47 PMIt's funny, really, that many of the lists are mostly are of comedies. I guess many remember those more than others. Myself, I love a good comedy but overall, give me a good drama series and I can't wait for the following week, and I'm happy.

Another show I should have included (yes, 30 may soon be the 20 of yesterday), is Have Gun Will Travel. maybe the first adult-type western.
If memory holds and it usually doesn't, it was on Saturday night.

Another genre that seems to be missing is police procedurals.  Toss in private eyes, and you have many, many shows to choose from.

@Jolly Blue Giant I will have to check out Twin Peaks.

I think the other reason Lost was so disappointing was they killed off so many characters (a mistake Walking Dead repeated).   Few shows are capable of crafting characters like the producers of Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul (I was truly amazed how those guys could create characters that you quickly connect with and care about).   So when shows like Lost or The Walking Dead kill off characters (admittedly, it brings a big impact, but that impact always diminishes as the body counts rise), they kill off part of the connection to the series.  That is why they went with that contrived final season where they brought back all their dead characters. 

Some of the deaths were hilarious though


A little bogus though, because if one stick of dynamite blows up within a few feet of a box of dynamite (especially unstable dynamite), it all goes up and nobody survives in that group

I hope you do watch Twin Peaks. I'd love to hear from anyone who has actually gotten into it like I did. The show is "pre-widescreen" from back in the 80s. Seems funny that 80's television is 40 years ago...how time flies

Note: I made a mistake in the earlier post, the waitress married to a horrible trucker is "Shelly" (Mädchen Amick- a complete doll), not Donna (Lara Flynn Boyle)

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 11, 2023, 01:56:33 PMBTW...did anyone ever watch Becker? I loved that show

YES!!! I loved Becker too!

"Ed" (the bowling alley lawyer) was another show I liked. It featured a young Julie Bowen (Modern Family).

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 11, 2023, 01:36:32 PMIn my personal opinion, the caliber of TV (ie TV series and miniseries) has absolutely skyrocketed in the last 25 years or so. Shows that were huge in the 70s and 80s (Mash, Charlie's Angels, Happy Days, etc) would be flops today. Even Cheers would be IMO. And I don't think the opposite would be the case. Meaning, I think a 1970s audience would like today's top television series more than the other way around. Obviously this is subjective, but given it's human nature to tend to think the older stuff (in any area of life) was better than the way they do things now, I think it's noteworthy how much better TV has gotten.

A big part of that is the reality that there are now so many more options for TV. When I was a kid, before cable you basically had 13 channels total - that was it. And then even when cable first came out, it was pretty basic. Now, with so many more options, the industry has invested a lot more into it and the caliber of content it puts out.

Meanwhile, movies have declined significantly versus what they were in the 90s and earlier. There are still great movies being made, but they are way fewer and farther between nowadays. When I was a kid in the 80s and early 90s, I used to go to the movies on weekends usually two or three times a month, and there were always tons of solid options. Now you're lucky if you get two or three truly very good American-made movies a year.

So I think it's noteworthy that the two mediums have sort of flipped spots. Whereas TV was considered the lower level medium before the turn of the century (roughly), and movies were considered much better, I feel like the opposite is the case now. It is interesting how it has all developed.

I had the same thoughts about TV shows. I think the audience has evolved and what we thought was funny in the 60's, 70's and 80's seems either overdone, sophomoric, stupid, or inappropriate. We may have loved the characters and the show was slotted when nothing competed.

Shows like Green Acres, Petticoat Junction, Beverly Hillbillies, and Gilligan's Island to name a few are unwatchable now (as Rich commented). Shows like All In The Family aren't funny and younger viewers would be in shock. Cheers which was a big draw is like vegetable lasagna now and man whores like Malone are dinosaurs. Taxi still has some iconic episodes. Seinfeld is still a good show to watch reruns. Characters like Iggy and Cramer make those shows, like Curly did for the 3 Stooges. I used to love Laurel and Hardy and Stan is still funny to me. Abbott and Costello, not really.

Remember the comedy of Andrew Dice Clay? Or Eddie Murphy or Richard Pryer raw? All inappropriate now. Jerry Lewis was and still is stupid to me.

As for Movies, I think the advent of Streaming Services and their successful series have drawn a lot of Movie talent their way. It's also created opportunities for some fine actors who would have been limited to character actor roles. That's where the money flows. People are more comfortable viewing from the comfort of their homes on their own time schedule. Now that's all on the cusp of change as they are unprofitable and some will fall by the wayside or consolidate as price increases are tested.     

Quote from: Bob In PA on December 10, 2023, 10:51:15 PMLenn: No one except you is OLD enough to remember Topper.... except for me... and if they ARE old enough and don't live in either NY or Northeast PA they never got to see WPIX. Same for "My Little Margie" starring Gail Storm (by the way, that's one of IMO the greatest stage names of all time.... Gail(gale) = Storm, get it? lol

I'm old enough to remember Neil the champagne drinking St. Bernard. And don't forget that young Walter Denton who was infatuated with Miss Brooks!

Bill

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 11, 2023, 03:52:59 PMI had the same thoughts about TV shows. I think the audience has evolved and what we thought was funny in the 60's, 70's and 80's seems either overdone, sophomoric, stupid, or inappropriate. We may have loved the characters and the show was slotted when nothing competed.

Shows like Green Acres, Petticoat Junction, Beverly Hillbillies, and Gilligan's Island to name a few are unwatchable now (as Rich commented). Shows like All In The Family aren't funny and younger viewers would be in shock. Cheers which was a big draw is like vegetable lasagna now and man whores like Malone are dinosaurs. Taxi still has some iconic episodes. Seinfeld is still a good show to watch reruns. Characters like Iggy and Cramer make those shows, like Curly did for the 3 Stooges. I used to love Laurel and Hardy and Stan is still funny to me. Abbott and Costello, not really.

Remember the comedy of Andrew Dice Clay? Or Eddie Murphy or Richard Pryer raw? All inappropriate now. Jerry Lewis was and still is stupid to me.

As for Movies, I think the advent of Streaming Services and their successful series have drawn a lot of Movie talent their way. It's also created opportunities for some fine actors who would have been limited to character actor roles. That's where the money flows. People are more comfortable viewing from the comfort of their homes on their own time schedule. Now that's all on the cusp of change as they are unprofitable and some will fall by the wayside or consolidate as price increases are tested.     

Excellent points and analysis across the board, especially the comments about how the tastes of the audience evolve over different eras. While shows like Gilligan's Island seem dumb now, they were obviously well liked at the time. And I'm sure by the time the 70s rolled around, people in their 20s and 30s who liked those shows didn't like the Groucho Marx stuff their parents and grandparents enjoyed in their younger years.

What I would say though is that the comedy movies of the 70s and 80s were incredibly funny and still are, even today. Trading Places is my favorite comedy of all time. Animal House is in the discussion. So are Fletch, the first Vacation, and Christmas Vacation. Not only do I still love those comedies today, but I rate those way higher than any comedy movie I have seen in the last 15 years or so. The last comedies I really loved were the Vince Vaughn/Ben Stiller/Owen Wilson movies like Wedding Crashers, Old School, Meet The Parents, etc. Do high quality comedy movies even get made anymore? They seem pretty uncommon, and the ones that do come out seem pretty dumb.

So I definitely agree that tastes evolve and we also agree that TV has vastly surpassed films for the most part, but it's an interesting overall discussion because there are some nuances to it such as the above.

Quote from: Bill Brown on December 11, 2023, 05:15:08 PMI'm old enough to remember Neil the champagne drinking St. Bernard. And don't forget that young Walter Denton who was infatuated with Miss Brooks!

Bill

I'll start with you Bill, Richard Crenna was that lad soon to become a sort of man in the Real McCoys.