Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on December 11, 2023, 01:53:12 PMYou are so right about that. The mystery was so intense, that there was no way to end it in a way that would satisfy viewers...and they way they ended it was as disappointing as it could possibly be. But man, what a ride for a few years

I've read that the reason they played it out how they did, was because of a previous blockbuster series that enthralled everyone, was the bizarre David Lynch mind-bender, Twin Peaks. Like Lost, it was so captivating that it was - as you say - the "water cooler" discussions across America for of the decade. The writers of Lost admitted that they used Twin Peaks as the format as well as, "what to do and what not to do". With Twin Peaks, there was a mystery so intense that it held the audience with a death grip. But once they revealed the killer in the second season, it was essentially over. But Twin Peaks tried to keep it going with new ideas and mysteries that paled in comparison to the first season and a half. As such, the show dwindled down to nothing. They even tried to make a followup movie (Fire Walk With Me) that was about as bad a movie as could be. Utterly unwatchable. Then they tried to bring it back with Twin Peaks 2, yet another bust not worth watching

The writers of Lost decided that they didn't want to lose their captive audience by revealing too much too soon and end up like Twin Peaks. Both shows kept the largest audiences of their time with a strangle hold that wouldn't let go. My suggestion to anyone who wishes to watch Twin Peaks - DON'T GOOGLE WHO KILLED LAURA PALMER, and just enjoy the show. Don't watch the movie or the second version of Twin Peaks. The original show was the apex of Lynch's career as a writer, right down to the music written for the show. Watch the first episode and you'll be hooked like a bass that swallowed the treble hook

Incredible cast with Kyle MacLachlan (Agent Cooper) for which he won the Golden Globe Award for Best Actor in a Television Series, Sherilyn Fenn (Audrey Home - devious, hi-libido, ultra-naughty teen with an penchant for trouble), Lara Flynn Boyle (the town sweetheart married to a horrible truck driver with a huge anger problem), Heather Graham when she was young, and a stellar performance by one of my favorite actors (may he RIP), Miguel Ferrer (an overbearing, hugely insulting FBI big, who comes to town to clean up a mess that's too big and complicated to do...lol

Like Lost (Breaking Bad, Ozark, etc.), it captures attention like few shows can. Watch a half hour of the first episode and you'll see why it's addictive. Just don't spoil it by looking up anything on Google and enjoy the ride (it's only streaming on Paramount+)

Ric

Let's call a spade a spade here, I fully hated Twin Peaks. I tried to like it, but really, I did. I even went back a few years later and tried again, only to be thoroughly disgusted with it. Let's just say I am not a fan of David Lynch on anything.
 Recently I watched one of his better movies, Mulholland Drive. I never saw it and it was rated with 5 stars. I don't know how I made it thru to the end without turning it off. I won't go int o details, but I thought it was one of the stupidest movies I had seen in quite a while.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 11, 2023, 02:13:56 PMAnother genre that seems to be missing is police procedurals.  Toss in private eyes, and you have many, many shows to choose from.

@Jolly Blue Giant I will have to check out Twin Peaks.

I think the other reason Lost was so disappointing was they killed off so many characters (a mistake Walking Dead repeated).   Few shows are capable of crafting characters like the producers of Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul (I was truly amazed how those guys could create characters that you quickly connect with and care about).   So when shows like Lost or The Walking Dead kill off characters (admittedly, it brings a big impact, but that impact always diminishes as the body counts rise), they kill off part of the connection to the series.  That is why they went with that contrived final season where they brought back all their dead characters. 

I completely disagree about killing off people ruining the viewing. I felt that was one of the really great things about shows like TWD, and even to a greater degree GOT, (The Sopranos also used this very effectively). No one was safe, not the big star, not the little guy. You had to watch to see and the tension was always there because of that fact, you just didn't know if 'your' guy would survive to the end. Truly groundbreaking stuff.

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 11, 2023, 03:52:59 PMI had the same thoughts about TV shows. I think the audience has evolved and what we thought was funny in the 60's, 70's and 80's seems either overdone, sophomoric, stupid, or inappropriate. We may have loved the characters and the show was slotted when nothing competed.

Shows like Green Acres, Petticoat Junction, Beverly Hillbillies, and Gilligan's Island to name a few are unwatchable now (as Rich commented). Shows like All In The Family aren't funny and younger viewers would be in shock. Cheers which was a big draw is like vegetable lasagna now and man whores like Malone are dinosaurs. Taxi still has some iconic episodes. Seinfeld is still a good show to watch reruns. Characters like Iggy and Cramer make those shows, like Curly did for the 3 Stooges. I used to love Laurel and Hardy and Stan is still funny to me. Abbott and Costello, not really.

Remember the comedy of Andrew Dice Clay? Or Eddie Murphy or Richard Pryer raw? All inappropriate now. Jerry Lewis was and still is stupid to me.

As for Movies, I think the advent of Streaming Services and their successful series have drawn a lot of Movie talent their way. It's also created opportunities for some fine actors who would have been limited to character actor roles. That's where the money flows. People are more comfortable viewing from the comfort of their homes on their own time schedule. Now that's all on the cusp of change as they are unprofitable and some will fall by the wayside or consolidate as price increases are tested.     

 Look back on what TV shows were on, say in the 80's. You had variety shows all over the place, yet today nothing like this would ever be possible. Take a show like Ed Sullivan which WAS the show for so many years. The format was great, have a little of everything to appeal to everyone. Today, it might be canceled after a couple of weeks.
As I said in a previous post, those silly comedies, were always silly to me. Take a show like Happy Days, right up my alley. Once Fonzie got too big the appeal of the show started to wane, at least for me.
Funny is funny though as with the Honeymooners. It is about as silly as can be, but the actors made it real and the anticipation of certain lines, just made us want to keep watching. For me, I can say the same thing about The Odd Couple. Great cast and perfectly cast.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 11, 2023, 05:59:58 PMExcellent points and analysis across the board, especially the comments about how the tastes of the audience evolve over different eras. While shows like Gilligan's Island seem dumb now, they were obviously well liked at the time. And I'm sure by the time the 70s rolled around, people in their 20s and 30s who liked those shows didn't like the Groucho Marx stuff their parents and grandparents enjoyed in their younger years.

What I would say though is that the comedy movies of the 70s and 80s were incredibly funny and still are, even today. Trading Places is my favorite comedy of all time. Animal House is in the discussion. So are Fletch, the first Vacation, and Christmas Vacation. Not only do I still love those comedies today, but I rate those way higher than any comedy movie I have seen in the last 15 years or so. The last comedies I really loved were the Vince Vaughn/Ben Stiller/Owen Wilson movies like Wedding Crashers, Old School, Meet The Parents, etc. Do high quality comedy movies even get made anymore? They seem pretty uncommon, and the ones that do come out seem pretty dumb.

So I definitely agree that tastes evolve and we also agree that TV has vastly surpassed films for the most part, but it's an interesting overall discussion because there are some nuances to it such as the above.

Dave

I guess we will never to the movie together, as I basically hated most of the movies you mentioned. I despise Jim Carrey, Adam Sandler, and that entire genre of silly (well stupid to me) type of movies.

Where I disagree is that there are and were much funnier movies that didn't have to be stupid to be funny. A perfect example is My Cousin Vinny, maybe one of the funniest movies I can remember in many years, and it just doesn't get old, as you watch it over and over and still laugh.

Quote from: LennG on December 11, 2023, 07:31:51 PMLook back on what TV shows were on, say in the 80's. You had variety shows all over the place, yet today nothing like this would ever be possible. Take a show like Ed Sullivan which WAS the show for so many years. The format was great, have a little of everything to appeal to everyone. Today, it might be canceled after a couple of weeks.
As I said in a previous post, those silly comedies, were always silly to me. Take a show like Happy Days, right up my alley. Once Fonzie got too big the appeal of the show started to wane, at least for me.
Funny is funny though as with the Honeymooners. It is about as silly as can be, but the actors made it real and the anticipation of certain lines, just made us want to keep watching. For me, I can say the same thing about The Odd Couple. Great cast and perfectly cast.

The Honeymooners is timeless.

Quote from: LennG on December 11, 2023, 07:35:37 PMDave

I guess we will never to the movie together, as I basically hated most of the movies you mentioned. I despise Jim Carrey, Adam Sandler, and that entire genre of silly (well stupid to me) type of movies.

Where I disagree is that there are and were much funnier movies that didn't have to be stupid to be funny. A perfect example is My Cousin Vinny, maybe one of the funniest movies I can remember in many years, and it just doesn't get old, as you watch it over and over and still laugh.

Lenn,

I didn't mention either Carrey or Sandler and am not huge fans of either. Not sure what they have to do with  anything I said. They weren't in any of the movies I mentioned.

I liked My Cousin Vinny a lot. That was a lot earlier than the ones I mentioned. My point, which, with respect, you may have missed, was that comedy movies haven't been that great in the last 15 or so years. I loved many comedies from the 70s, 80s, and even 90s. Not so much in the last 15-20 years. That was really my point.

Quote from: LennG on December 11, 2023, 07:21:16 PMRic

Let's call a spade a spade here, I fully hated Twin Peaks. I tried to like it, but really, I did. I even went back a few years later and tried again, only to be thoroughly disgusted with it. Let's just say I am not a fan of David Lynch on anything.
 Recently I watched one of his better movies, Mulholland Drive. I never saw it and it was rated with 5 stars. I don't know how I made it thru to the end without turning it off. I won't go int o details, but I thought it was one of the stupidest movies I had seen in quite a while.

Yeah, it was show that people either loved or hated...no in between. I know/knew a lot more people who loved it than the other, but there were some people who hated it. Those that loved it were captivated by it, with each episode adding to the ever deepening mystery. David Lynch isn't for everyone. There was actually a line spoken in Lost in which one of the characters said, "I feel like I'm stuck in a David Lynch show" as he kept coming into new mysteries in the woods...lol

Quote from: LennG on December 11, 2023, 07:21:16 PMRic

Let's call a spade a spade here, I fully hated Twin Peaks. I tried to like it, but really, I did. I even went back a few years later and tried again, only to be thoroughly disgusted with it. Let's just say I am not a fan of David Lynch on anything.
 Recently I watched one of his better movies, Mulholland Drive. I never saw it and it was rated with 5 stars. I don't know how I made it thru to the end without turning it off. I won't go int o details, but I thought it was one of the stupidest movies I had seen in quite a while.

Lenny: Out of curiosity, did you also hate Northern Exposure? That too was an "off-beat" type of show.  Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on December 12, 2023, 12:25:10 PMLenny: Out of curiosity, did you also hate Northern Exposure? That too was an "off-beat" type of show.  Bob

B ob

both myself and the missus LOVED Northern Exposure. It was quirky but a great cast and I just bought into the premiss right away.
I loved the John Corbett role, also Barry Corbin. Add to that the stars of Morrow and Turner and you have the makings of a good show.

Quote from: LennG on December 11, 2023, 07:21:16 PMLet's just say I am not a fan of David Lynch on anything.
 Recently I watched one of his better movies, Mulholland Drive. I never saw it and it was rated with 5 stars. I don't know how I made it thru to the end without turning it off. I won't go int o details, but I thought it was one of the stupidest movies I had seen in quite a while.

Suffice to say Len, don't go out of your way to watch the movie "Eraserhead."   

Quote from: LennG on December 12, 2023, 05:42:17 PMB ob

both myself and the missus LOVED Northern Exposure. It was quirky but a great cast and I just bought into the premiss right away.
I loved the John Corbett role, also Barry Corbin. Add to that the stars of Morrow and Turner and you have the makings of a good show.

Lenn: Either Northern Exposure or The Big Bang Theory would be my number-one all-time favorite from my list.

Quote from: Bob In PA on December 12, 2023, 08:23:56 PMLenn: Either Northern Exposure or The Big Bang Theory would be my number-one all-time favorite from my list.

 You need to get out more.