Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: files58 on December 26, 2023, 10:46:21 AMMark Collins
Perry Williams
Terry Kinard, then Tom Flynn when Kinard got hurt
Kenny Hill
We had arguably one of the best LB corp ever, and a stout DL.

Coaches can only do so much, one needs talent.

I listed the starters in the '86 playoffs while you captured nearly everyone else. They also had Greg Lasker as a rookie back there.

Peace!

Like most things in life the answer is that it is several things. Some of it is definitely an issue of talent - Dex and a fit AT might be our only starters who would definitely start for the Eagles. Some of it is coaching. Some of it is injuries (which is usually a mix of training, turf, technique & luck). Some might be locker room - how many true leaders do we have that drive up energy, competitive spirit and drive to win (as opposed to good guys, community assets or thin-skinned egos)? Stepping back we still do not look, feel or act like a winning organisation. We lack edge and fire on and off the field.

If you were going to build a team, where would you start? You start with the GM and HC. From there the HC picks his Coaching Staff. Then players are brought in.

You can only do so much with the players you have. However what is lost is where you build from first and foremost. QB, Oline and Dline.

Coughlin had marginal players at Linebacker and in the Secondary with a few solid players mixed in. No elite Receivers but some very good complimentary pieces. One decent TE and the rest suboptimal. The RBs were very good complimented by the Oline. The point is that you can't have great players at every position but good coaching gets the most out of the players and gets them to compliment each other. AJ Brown was a good receiver but became a great receiver with Hurts. Matt Stafford was a good 10-15 QB and became an Elite QB in LA. CMC is a consistent, healthy elite RB today. The Raiders under Pierce are a different team.

So you need both, but you start with the GM on down. Schoen and Daboll are tied at the hip. Can they work together bring in the right talent? So far Schoen has failed to upgrade both Lines. He's a few players away on both fronts and that has impacted the team. It's killed the Offense and shackled three QBs. Can Daboll get the most out of a well and properly staffed team? He hasn't shown that yet. He should have replaced his Oline and Special Teams Coach before the season began. His Offense is extremely predictable and they find themselves in third down Hell where they can't convert.

It's pretty bleak right now for this regime and a lot of changes need to be be made. Let's see how the fans support Daboll at home against a desperate Eagles team. 

Ed, I really don't know if Daboll and Schoen are the right people or not.   What I dont want is to draft a QB this year.  Keep Daboll and Schoen and then fire them after 1 year of a new QB.  Changing regimes for yesr 2 of a QB usually doesn't work too well for the QB.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on December 26, 2023, 12:32:19 PMEd, I really don't know if Daboll and Schoen are the right people or not.   What I dont want is to draft a QB this year.  Keep Daboll and Schoen and then fire them after 1 year of a new QB.  Changing regimes for yesr 2 of a QB usually doesn't work too well for the QB.

I think Daboll and Schoen have a couple years minimum.

If the Pats win this week, it's possible for either Drake Maye or Daniels to be there when they pick. Would Schoen pass on either of those QBs? If he does, how will that go down?

Quote from: Ed Vette on December 26, 2023, 12:56:42 PMIf the Pats win this week, it's possible for either Drake Maye or Daniels to be there when they pick. Would Schoen pass on either of those QBs? If he does, how will that go down?

Obviously we are only dealing in speculation here, but I struggle to see any way that happens short of them both having some injury or scandal be revealed that we don't know about today.

Admittedly it's totally possible that they did their due diligence on both of these players and came away with the view that neither is worthy of a top 10 pick, but given how bad the QB room is and given that you don't get these opportunities every year, I'd be shocked if they didn't take a shot. I'll be surprised if they even pass on Daniels.

If we get to pick #4 let's say Daniels or Maye is available. It all depends if the FO likes McCarthy more. Then it's possible for a trade down a couple spots, and get some more assets. I want as many turns at the wheel as possible. Any OL taken has to have a mean streak. I want to evolve into a belligerent, nasty team that no one wants to play.

Definitely lack of talent mainly at QB, Oline. I assume that the D would improve  with a better offense.

A much better QB will solve most of the Giants issues imo.

Quote from: sooners56 on December 26, 2023, 01:18:22 PMDefinitely lack of talent mainly at QB, Oline. I assume that the D would improve  with a better offense.

A much better QB will solve most of the Giants issues imo.

I think playing defense with an offense that is top half of the league is much easier than a bottom 5 offense.

It's a point that I think is missed by many.

I think we can all agree our team doesn't have a lot of talent, but we sure aren't devoid of it. I feel what talent we do have is just not being used in the right ways.

Let's look at our WRs. We draft a speedster in Hyatt yet he never saw the ball one time in yesterday's game. He was, what, a @2 pick and he starts and goes games without ever touching the ball. Speed is the name of the game today and if our OC can't find a way of using this speed, then why did we draft Hyatt in the first place? I don't care if he is as dumb as a rock, just find a way to use his speed in our offensive game plan. Except for Campbell and we just don't know what he has to offer, most of our WRs can catch the ball when thrown to them, but we still need a big-time #1 guy. Waller was thought to be that, but another wasted big-time FA pick-up at WR. Why can't we get this right?

Most know I wanted the Giants to draft Simmons, especially as he was touted as a pass rusher, yet he is used mostly in coverage schemes. Personally, and it is just my opinion, with the right coach he can be almost as effective as Parsons. He is a unique talent and needs the right system, but he can rush the passer, yet he is rarely used that way.

I won't even mention our OL coach and our ST coach because there is simply nothing to say about coaches who just fail at their jobs yet continue to have jobs.

Another offense problem, we just continue to run Barkley off tackle, over and over and over again. Is he immune to something different, like a quick pitch? or a quick slant over the middle?

Does anyone else think Thibs is a bit overrated? Sure he is an exceptional talent, but where the hell is he in big games? Interesting sat they posted, he has 6 games without a sack and yesterday he didn't even have a tackle. Is this on him or coaching?

I will say the Ravens D looks pretty good post year 2 of Wink Martindale. I'd say most would agree they have always had talent so switching to a new coach didn't affect the outcome.

https://x.com/JeffEBonham/status/1739668470776643893?s=20

I don't like these 'either/or' scenarios. It's never one or the other. It's both.