Big Blue Huddle

Can you imagine dealing with this shitshow in the middle of the season?

The world of social media and couch juries has come a long way and far removed from Hufnagal.

You either follow leadership or you're out the door. Rightly or wrongly that's the way it is.

Unless of course your boss is a bully or something along those lines. There's one captain, one vision. Buy in or ship out.

The Giants D were hardly excellent last season. I am sure that level of productivity can be replaced with relative ease.

The guy has been in the league for 19 years and never been a head coach. That's pretty telling. 

I initially supported Daboll when hired but to be honest, even before the Wink issue I had soured somewhat on Daboll.

He is a control freak and not particularly personable.  His results on the offense have been horrendous. That was supposed to have been his specialty.

We can do better than a "drag along" from the Bills by Schoen. 

Schoen needs to part with his old buddy and organize a real HC search.

Vrabel is available and would be a significant upgrade in my opinion.

Id hate to see Vrable joining the Commanders or Eagles (I think Siriani is doomed after this coming Monday night.  the Eagles have been in reverse for half the season).

Whatever Im a Giants fan to the core and hope somehow this all works out.

Likely Daboll is now free to run the team as he sees fit.  Lets see his end product come September.  Should be an eventful off season.  Has been so far.

I wonder what the players are feeling right now.

Quote from: GordonGekko80 on January 10, 2024, 04:00:49 PMThe latter.

I think Lombardi isn't accounting for the difficulty in managing Wink's character.

Typically, the truth lays in the middle.

Apologies if I quote myself, but I feel I'd like to explain this a little better;

What I mean by the above is that mistakes were made on both sides, more specifically; You don't yell at your DC in the middle of a game. BD's demeanor has been less than ideal. This is not how you should manage your people. I get the frustration, the pressure, anything you want, but there are ways and places where you can confront Wink directly, and that's certainly not the right way of doing it.

BUT: Does that give Wink the right to do what he's done? Absolutely not. As mentioned before, BD is the Head Coach. Period. He is your boss. You cannot start a feud from within the core of the team and start undermining the HC.

At the end of the day, I think BD understood that he made a mistake and tried to fix it. I believe that BD did more than Wink to fix the situation. And Wink had no interest whatsoever in getting things fixed between the parties. Wink's behaviour was equally wrong as DB's, but somewhat just more childish, because one way of improving is understanding where you were wrong and admit it. Doesn't look like Wink is capable of doing this.

So my view is that JS supported BD, as he should. And so should we, I think.

I agree GG. The boss is the boss, right or wrong. You can have your say. You can have your principles. You can ultimately vote with your feet if you cannot find middle ground. Providing you do so privately and professionally.

I get that sports are 'emotional' but in any senior leadership position in any aspect of life if you cannot manage your own emotions you cannot manage anything or anyone. You will always be a passenger, even a prisoner, of your own impulses and moods.

The jury is still out on whether Daboll can grow into a true leader becoming more than just 'talented' but erratic. I think the verdict is now in that Wink never will.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on January 11, 2024, 12:22:20 AMYou either follow leadership or you're out the door. Rightly or wrongly that's the way it is.

Unless of course your boss is a bully or something along those lines. There's one captain, one vision. Buy in or ship out.

The Giants D were hardly excellent last season. I am sure that level of productivity can be replaced with relative ease.

The guy has been in the league for 19 years and never been a head coach. That's pretty telling. 

It's funny that you used the word "leadership".  Being in charge means you get to tell others what to do.  Leadership is how well you do that.  A poor leader forces others to listen by virtue of their authority.  A good leader has people agreeable to what is asked of them.  A great leader has people wanting to follow them.

I think it's fair to say that Wink is anarchic, don't you think?

Quote from: GordonGekko80 on January 11, 2024, 06:45:43 AMI think it's fair to say that Wink is anarchic, don't you think?

I think Wink could be described as an anti-hero.   The players love him because he listens to them, treats them well, and puts them in positions to succeed.   However, he also isn't the dutiful follower in the bigger picture.  He will be a pain in the backside to manage because he has a way of doing things and isn't one to go for the Kumbaya management fads.   Managing a guy like Wink takes some management talent, patience/tolerance, and a constant reminder that it's about the big picture, but guys like this tend to get results.

It is a fair point on leadership Mighty and you will note I make the point about Daboll needing to develop in this area. However, sooner or later guys like Wink always wear out their welcome. A good leader can channel them effectively for a while but if they do not learn and adapt there always comes a point where effort and reward no longer align, particularly if you find you are wasting time controlling a senior, experienced guy that would be better spent inspiring, developing and mentoring younger future leaders.

Quote from: GordonGekko80 on January 11, 2024, 06:45:43 AMI think it's fair to say that Wink is anarchic, don't you think?

What I find poisonous, organizationally, and of much more concern long range, is that Wink thought he could get away with undermining Daboll because he had the ear and support of the owner. I don't know if he actually did, but he seems to have thought that he did.  And I don't think he could have gotten that impression out of thin air. 

Quote from: londonblue on January 11, 2024, 10:30:00 AMIt is a fair point on leadership Mighty and you will note I make the point about Daboll needing to develop in this area. However, sooner or later guys like Wink always wear out their welcome. A good leader can channel them effectively for a while but if they do not learn and adapt there always comes a point where effort and reward no longer align, particularly if you find you are wasting time controlling a senior, experienced guy that would be better spent inspiring, developing and mentoring younger future leaders.

Neal,

I agree with this point.   However, I am also mindful that Wink's biggest point of contention is being publicly dressed down on the sidelines.  I don't think, in this day and age, such a request by Wink is not unreasonable.

To your point, as I have gotten older, I have found myself "wasting" less time trying to control the people under me.  I have reached a point where I evaluate the people in terms of their net contributions towards an organization's goals.   If it's positive I tend to work with their quirks and issues, if it's not (and I can do something about it) then I work to part ways with them.   When I was younger, I would waste time trying to control people (over what, in the big picture, were minor issues), but not any longer.

I can appreciate that not everyone will take my approach, and it was Daboll's right to part ways with Wink.    What I will say is non-negotiable was the terrible way this all went down.  Frankly, if Daboll had decided to let Wink go, he should have simply let him go.  His name should have been announced along with T-Mac and Bobby Johnson.  The whole game playing about, "Oh, I want him back, and I expect him back." firing his key coaches to make him quit was a huge mistake, in my opinion, and only served to sully Daboll and the organization.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 11, 2024, 10:56:12 AMNeal,

I agree with this point.   However, I am also mindful that Wink's biggest point of contention is being publicly dressed down on the sidelines.  I don't think, in this day and age, such a request by Wink is not unreasonable.

To my knowledge, Martindale wasn't publicly dressed down by Harbaugh in Baltimore. Yet, he wore out his welcome there.

Quote from: T200 on January 11, 2024, 11:12:12 AMTo my knowledge, Martindale wasn't publicly dressed down by Harbaugh in Baltimore. Yet, he wore out his welcome there.

Tim,

The reports from Baltimore are pretty clear.  The parting of the ways was truly mutual and totally amicable. I posted a report of that departure from the Athletic (which has high-level quality reporting).  So we really can't say if Wink did or didn't wear out his welcome.   

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 11, 2024, 11:17:57 AMTim,

The reports from Baltimore are pretty clear.  The parting of the ways was truly mutual and totally amicable. I posted a report of that departure from the Athletic (which has high-level quality reporting).  So we really can't say if Wink did or didn't wear out his welcome.   

He had a year left on his contract. The Ravens wanted to get a new DC. He could have stayed in Baltimore. Why take the same job and start over with another team? There was a reason Harbaugh didn't want to keep him. He's just classy enough not to say.

Quote from: T200 on January 11, 2024, 11:26:03 AMHe had a year left on his contract. The Ravens wanted to get a new DC. He could have stayed in Baltimore. Why take the same job and start over with another team? There was a reason Harbaugh didn't want to keep him. He's just classy enough not to say.

The report said Wink wouldn't agree to more years on his contact.  To answer your question, Wink's goal was an HC job.   Turning around an anemic defense would generate more interest in him than just more years in Baltimore, where he has already earned the reputation of being a good DC.   Wink's plan did seem to generate more interest, as he did get another HC interview last off season.