Big Blue Huddle

Dr. Jessica Flynn joined Phil Perry on a new Next Pats Podcast to share her insight, starting with Penix's two shoulder injuries.

"The sternoclavicular (SC) joint injury, it's an emergency when it happens because there's a lot of important blood vessels and things like that behind that joint. But once the athlete recovers, particularly a quarterback in the non-throwing hand, much less of a concern. Even if there's a little bit of instability afterwards, much less of a concern," Flynn said.

"The AC joint injury, we've seen how many quarterbacks go out with this injury just this season alone. (Indianapolis Colts QB) Anthony Richardson had a pretty high-grade injury. It's a little bit more of a concern, but the fact that he's able to throw after that injury is much more reassuring. So any time from that injury is going to help to reassure everyone he's throwing fine, it's not affecting his form."

Unsurprisingly, Flynn expressed far more concern over Penix Jr.'s right ACL.

"The knee issues are concerning unfortunately for him. When one ACL happens, that's a pretty common injury. But when you start to see a second, there are a few different concerns," Flynn said. "One is, is he just at risk for having these really high-level injuries in general? There really hasn't been found any kind of gene or anything that associates Achilles, ACL tears, but a lot of researchers think there is something that links them, and we do tend to see these things happen sort of in groups in professional athletes. So that's kind of number one.

"But number two is more just that damage, that added damage to that one knee. And so, I think the important thing for him is knowing, is this knee stable? It's been reconstructed multiple times, so you're going to want the team to get a really good examination of him. Obviously, they're going to want to see imaging. And the second issue is, OK, now he's had two injuries, we know one ACL injury can lead to some arthritis, so is there something degenerative going on already in this young quarterback at the start of his career? Those are the two big red flags."

Nowadays, many athletes return even stronger after undergoing ACL surgery. The recovery process is quicker, and the injury isn't commonly considered a potential career-ender as it was in years past.

However, as Flynn notes, Penix Jr. tearing the same ACL twice indicates a potentially chronic issue that other athletes have been unable to play through long-term.

"This is the kind of injury that does end careers, unfortunately, but it doesn't happen overnight. Yes, athletes can play through this until the day when they can't. And we've seen other quarterbacks in the NFL who have had significant osteoarthritis in their knees play through it. And honestly, we didn't really hear much about it. ...

"It's not just one ACL, it's two ACLs. So now he's had two ACL (injuries) that put him at risk of an ACL injury in the other knee. And we've seen athletes go through this. I mean, we know (former Patriots wide receiver) Malcolm Mitchell's history. He really struggled. Obviously, it's a different position, but he really struggled with ACL injuries. And then, you know, I have a good friend, Jake Butt, played tight end at Michigan, looked like he was going to be a star in the NFL and just could not stay on the field because of the ACL injuries and secondary arthritis in the knees."

https://sports.yahoo.com/pats-chance-michael-penix-jr-194751147.html

They have a bigger issue to deal with in terms of Jones and his big cap hit coming up and how that may affect any decision they can or will make re a QB in the '24 Draft. As for Penix, he means little more than an excuse for someone to get ahead of his skis. Except maybe for Phil Simms, Hmm, Yeah, Maybe, Yathink, Huh? Pooobbbbffff!

Cheers!

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 07, 2024, 07:19:09 PMDr. Jessica Flynn joined Phil Perry on a new Next Pats Podcast to share her insight, starting with Penix's two shoulder injuries.

"The sternoclavicular (SC) joint injury, it's an emergency when it happens because there's a lot of important blood vessels and things like that behind that joint. But once the athlete recovers, particularly a quarterback in the non-throwing hand, much less of a concern. Even if there's a little bit of instability afterwards, much less of a concern," Flynn said.

"The AC joint injury, we've seen how many quarterbacks go out with this injury just this season alone. (Indianapolis Colts QB) Anthony Richardson had a pretty high-grade injury. It's a little bit more of a concern, but the fact that he's able to throw after that injury is much more reassuring. So any time from that injury is going to help to reassure everyone he's throwing fine, it's not affecting his form."

Unsurprisingly, Flynn expressed far more concern over Penix Jr.'s right ACL.

"The knee issues are concerning unfortunately for him. When one ACL happens, that's a pretty common injury. But when you start to see a second, there are a few different concerns," Flynn said. "One is, is he just at risk for having these really high-level injuries in general? There really hasn't been found any kind of gene or anything that associates Achilles, ACL tears, but a lot of researchers think there is something that links them, and we do tend to see these things happen sort of in groups in professional athletes. So that's kind of number one.

"But number two is more just that damage, that added damage to that one knee. And so, I think the important thing for him is knowing, is this knee stable? It's been reconstructed multiple times, so you're going to want the team to get a really good examination of him. Obviously, they're going to want to see imaging. And the second issue is, OK, now he's had two injuries, we know one ACL injury can lead to some arthritis, so is there something degenerative going on already in this young quarterback at the start of his career? Those are the two big red flags."

Nowadays, many athletes return even stronger after undergoing ACL surgery. The recovery process is quicker, and the injury isn't commonly considered a potential career-ender as it was in years past.

However, as Flynn notes, Penix Jr. tearing the same ACL twice indicates a potentially chronic issue that other athletes have been unable to play through long-term.

"This is the kind of injury that does end careers, unfortunately, but it doesn't happen overnight. Yes, athletes can play through this until the day when they can't. And we've seen other quarterbacks in the NFL who have had significant osteoarthritis in their knees play through it. And honestly, we didn't really hear much about it. ...

"It's not just one ACL, it's two ACLs. So now he's had two ACL (injuries) that put him at risk of an ACL injury in the other knee. And we've seen athletes go through this. I mean, we know (former Patriots wide receiver) Malcolm Mitchell's history. He really struggled. Obviously, it's a different position, but he really struggled with ACL injuries. And then, you know, I have a good friend, Jake Butt, played tight end at Michigan, looked like he was going to be a star in the NFL and just could not stay on the field because of the ACL injuries and secondary arthritis in the knees."

https://sports.yahoo.com/pats-chance-michael-penix-jr-194751147.html

I remember reading that one thing biomechanical engineers were exploring with ligament tears in the knees is the angle from the hip that the femur takes going into the knee joint followed by the angle out that the tibia and fibula take exiting the knee down to the ankle.  Everybody has different angles because of different hip sizes and construction.  These biomechanical engineers postulated that with the bones coming in at different angles and the resultant ligaments being at different angles for everybody, that people with certain bone and ligament angles (because of different hip build) may be more prone to tears of the ACL and other ligaments.  That may be the case with Penix.

Sorry but one correction to the article is that he did not tear the same ligament as they don't repair the torn ligament by sewing it back together.  Once it tears it's lost.  They replace the torn ligament with either a patella tendon from the person or they use a cadaver's ligament.  So technically they did not repair the same ligament.

Wonder if Phil wants to turn back time and say something different.

Quote from: JT39 on January 09, 2024, 11:13:50 AMWonder if Phil wants to turn back time and say something different.

I doubt it; Simms said his impression was based on what he saw from Pennix all season, not just the playoff game.  I doubt a single game will sway his views signficantly

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 09, 2024, 11:19:43 AMI doubt it; Simms said his impression was based on what he saw from Pennix all season, not just the playoff game.  I doubt a single game will sway his views signficantly

Trust me - Penix deficiencies have been noticeable all year. He throws a great deep ball but struggles in many areas.

People are wow'd by the big plays and tend to forget the simple ones that are missed.

Quote from: JT39 on January 09, 2024, 11:47:10 AMTrust me - Penix deficiencies have been noticeable all year. He throws a great deep ball but struggles in many areas.

People are wow'd by the big plays and tend to forget the simple ones that are missed.

I think it's worth noting Simms called him the "greatest college thrower" he has ever seen, not the greatest QB.   

Quote from: JT39 on January 09, 2024, 11:13:50 AMWonder if Phil wants to turn back time and say something different.

He said he is the best thrower.  He did not say he is the best QB.

Quote from: JT39 on January 09, 2024, 11:13:50 AMWonder if Phil wants to turn back time and say something different.

Phil couldn't make the latest episode of the Complete Simms podcast.  He did give notes to his son and he did address your "wonder".   After seeing Pennix throw for over 9000 yards the last two seasons, he wasn't going to change his views after one game against the best team he had ever faced.  That said, Simms did list a few issues (you can hear on the podcast) Pennix has that will be problems in the NFL if he doesn't clean them up.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 11, 2024, 11:06:27 AMPhil couldn't make the latest episode of the Complete Simms podcast.  He did give notes to his son and he did address your "wonder".   After seeing Pennix throw for over 9000 yards the last two seasons, he wasn't going to change his views after one game against the best team he had ever faced.  That said, Simms did list a few issues (you can hear on the podcast) Pennix has that will be problems in the NFL if he doesn't clean them up.

Penix is a steal
Go gettem

Losing to Michigan is not his fault

They were just a better team

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 11, 2024, 11:06:27 AMPhil couldn't make the latest episode of the Complete Simms podcast.  He did give notes to his son and he did address your "wonder".   After seeing Pennix throw for over 9000 yards the last two seasons, he wasn't going to change his views after one game against the best team he had ever faced.  That said, Simms did list a few issues (you can hear on the podcast) Pennix has that will be problems in the NFL if he doesn't clean them up.

I think those problems have been consistent with his career. His footwork and mechanics are terrible.

His arm is very strong and he does make some nice throws but some of those you won't get away with at the NFL level.

Quote from: JT39 on January 11, 2024, 12:06:09 PMI think those problems have been consistent with his career. His footwork and mechanics are terrible.

His arm is very strong and he does make some nice throws but some of those you won't get away with at the NFL level.

He made some throws in the Texas game that were magical

Lets put it this way, he made throws that Jones could only dream about

Nothing wrong with his pocket presence and footwork.  Walter Football praised
his footwork

He would immediately be the best QB on our roster in my opinion
his velocity, spin and accuracy are phenominal

Pass(no pun intended). His age, and injury history are big red flags for me. Did you see the way he came off the field holding his side/ribs? Michigan beat him up. What will happen in the NFL? I want a QB to last 10 years, not 10 minutes. We already have Jones who can't stay on the field.

There have been a lot of great throwers who never made it as NFL QBs.

Quote from: BluesCruz on January 11, 2024, 11:32:57 AMPenix is a steal
Go gettem

Losing to Michigan is not his fault

They were just a better team

I like Penix, but let's be fair here: he was AWFUL in the game against Michigan. He clearly doesn't get all of the blame, but he gets a decent chunk of it. He was not good at all, including on a number of passing plays where the pressure was minimal to moderate. He missed wide open receivers on multiple occasions. His accuracy was dreadful.