Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: katkavage on February 18, 2024, 09:20:12 AMThey might covet a player (receiver) that you do not. Plenty of reasons for it. Like I said, the receiver pool this year is very very deep. For a receiver to be effective he needs a QB. Giants don't have a top QB to work with a potentially great receiver. Get that first.

You do appreciate if the draft is deep in WRs there is little incentive for any team to trade up, right?


As for order players are drafted, having a solid O-line and at least one quality receiving target greatly enhances a team's chances for success when they do acquire a QB

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 18, 2024, 09:25:24 AMYou do appreciate if the draft is deep in WRs there is little incentive for any team to trade up, right?


As for order players are drafted, having a solid O-line and at least one quality receiving target greatly enhances a team's chances for success when they d

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 18, 2024, 09:25:24 AMYou do appreciate if the draft is deep in WRs there is little incentive for any team to trade up, right?


As for order players are drafted, having a solid O-line and at least one quality receiving target greatly enhances a team's chances for success when they do acquire a QB

I just said it was but if they covet one in particular like the genius Gettleman did with Toney. Same with offensive tackles. Lots of them. Also free agency can help in both areas. The bottom line is the Giants go nowhere until the QB position is fixed.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on February 17, 2024, 08:50:04 PMEd, I agree. Thats a risk you have to take and be able to deal with the consequences. Having said that...I think the chances of JC Latham being there in the mid-first are a lot more likely than McCarthy being there in the mid-first. As the GM...if my 5 guys are gone, I am moving back and getting as many draft picks as possible, if my boy is gone then I am taking the best player I can get and defiantly looking for a guy that played exclusively at a RT in college and grabbing him with one of my two 2nd round picks.

I'm doing the same thing to the the theme "Fix the damn line, once and for all!!!"

If you are going to drop and get a nice addition of picks, this draft and next, you are using this draft's capital to fix the line AND pick yourself a BPA in the range you dropped to.

On the other hand, if Schoen has a conviction at pick six (6), that he's willing to put his neck out for, then the expectation is the rest of his draft is planned with contingencies to ensure the Giants have improved their overall talent and, with free agency, can narrow the gap between them and Dallas and Philadelphia, and soon to be Washington whom we can assume will have no place to go but up.

But, for heaven's sake, fix the damn line!!! Please!!!

Trading back has its own problems because this draft is not deep at all. The drop off after the top 60 prospects is steep and next year's class doesn't look special at all. So what is the purpose of trading back, why are you collecting assets? You should have been collecting assets for this draft not the next.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 18, 2024, 10:11:26 AMTrading back has its own problems because this draft is not deep at all. The drop off after the top 60 prospects is steep and next year's class doesn't look special at all. So what is the purpose of trading back, why are you collecting assets? You should have been collecting assets for this draft not the next.

Add picks next year as well.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 18, 2024, 09:25:24 AMYou do appreciate if the draft is deep in WRs there is little incentive for any team to trade up, right?


As for order players are drafted, having a solid O-line and at least one quality receiving target greatly enhances a team's chances for success when they do acquire a QB

I could easily see someone trading up for Bowers or, as others have mentioned, someone like the Bengals trading up for the #1 LT.

This draft is not just QBs and WRs.

I dont see any scenario in which the Giants can trade back unless they are committed to DJ and a top QB prospect is there.

As for me, it wouldn't take much to entice me into trading down. I've only done about a thousand  mock draft simulations and when I don't trade down, I come away with one stud and a couple "potential" studs, and miss out on fixing a lot of our problems. We need some extra second day picks to do a good job at taking a Giant leap forward

I'm leary of using pick 6 on a QB, or any of the bloated positions (WR's, CB's, etc). First, because the Giants aren't looking to replace Daniel Jones regardless of the handful of fans who are screaming for him to be replaced (it ain't happening, so there's that), and secondly, because the bloated positions can give you a starter that is just as good (perhaps even better) in the 2nd and 3rd rounds...or even later rounds. Thirdly, I believe (and always will) that great teams are built around dominating both sides of the trench. If you don't control the trench, all the game planning in the world can't come up with a winning formula with trick plays, running QBs, etc., to be a consistent winning team. As Butkus said (and echoed by Parcels), "Build the trench and then build around it, the only way to win". I believe it and will take that opinion to the grave with me

With that said, my ideal trade down scenario would be to trade down within the top 12 and pick up another 2nd, and pray that Taliese Fuaga was still on the board, and he'd be my first choice...even at pick 6 if no offers came in. And I wouldn't have him replacing Neal, but playing alongside Neal at RG, and if the bigger, lengthier Neal fails to progress this year, then switch them out. If Fuaga is gone, I'd hope to trade down again, but no further than the mid-20s and getting an extra 2nd. I would then target inside guards, either Jackson Powers-Johnson or Graham Barton (who is almost as good as JGB, but can play RT)

Now, with a couple of extra 2nd rounders, I'd target a defensive lineman, and edge rusher, and another OG like Zak Zinter or Cooper Beebe. As far as ERs go, my favorite in the draft is LB/ER Payton Wilson or LB/ER Edgerran Cooper, with an edge to Wilson. Both roughly the same size, but Wilson an inch taller and 8 lbs heavier at 6-4/238, and faster than Cooper...both are incredible at getting to the quarterback. Wilson however, has a nasty streak that defies what a human can physically do. Wilson had 6 sacks to Cooper's 8 sacks last season. Also, Wilson would be first round pick and top LB/ER in the draft, if not for some serious past medical issues (think Trey Smith a couple of years ago). Cooper is the safer pick, Wilson the better pick if his medicals pass judgement. He's now had two years with zero injuries and he plays as if he has no past injuries. Still, if not for his past injuries, he'd be a first round pick, probably between 15-20

So with the extra picks, we'd get two stud OGs, a stud DLman, and a stud LB/ER. After shoring up the trench, then go for luxury picks like WR, CB, S, RB, etc., and I'd like us to grab one of the two best blocking TEs in the draft (Cade Stover and Breyvan Spann-Ford), both had a PFF blocking score over 90

Players that are my favorites in the draft include OGs' Fuaga, Jackson Powers-Johnson, Graham Barton, Zak Zinter,...DLmen, T'Vondre Sweat, Ruke Orhorhoro, and Maason Smith...LBs' Cooper and Wilson,...TEs Cade Stover and Breyvn Spann-Ford...WRs Malachi Corley, and Ainias Smith...and RBs' Trey Benson, Braelon Allen, and Will Shipley

A write-up on Payton Wilson:

Last season: 6 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 138 tackles, 69 solo tackles

"Bruce Feldman's Freak's List - ranked #48. He wrote, 'The 6-4, 238-pound former North Carolina state champion high school wrestler has vertical-jumped 36 inches, and coaches say he will "easily" run the 40 in the 4.49 to 4.54 range'"

"The motor of an absolute maniac on every single down" SI Giants

"Payton Wilson appears to have boosted his draft stock this week at the Senior Bowl."

Per NFL Draft analyst Daniel Jeremiah, Wilson is one of the 10 biggest 'winners' from Senior Bowl practices in Mobile this week. Jeremiah said Wilson looked like a "Day 2 prospect" while going through practice this week.

Here's Jeremiah's full analysis on the former NC State star:

From a talent perspective, Wilson looked like a Day 2 pick here in Mobile. He's a huge off-ball linebacker (6-4, 238 pounds), but he showed the ability to run and cover, too. Wilson was a three-sport star in high school in North Carolina, playing lacrosse and earning a state championship in wrestling. There are questions about his durability after he suffered multiple injuries during his early college career, but I see so much to like in his game.


Wilson was finally able to stay healthy in 2023 after battling injuries earlier in this career. A healthy season turned into a remarkable campaign for Wilson and the Wolfpack. Wilson was a unanimous All-American this past season and also took home the Bednarik and Butkus Awards." Saturdayroad.com

Worst case scenario, the Cowboys draft him to pair with Micah Parsons so they have two "hair on fire" guys to stuff RBs and QBs. Here's the Cowboy's analysis (coincidently, the Steelers, Cowboys, and Eagles have done extensive research on him, so I imagine so has the Giants):

The analysts constantly compare him to Ivan Pace, who is a half foot shorter than Wilson, consequently allowing him to be undrafted last year. Yet despite his size, is starring in the NFL as a rookie

Quote from: brownelvis54 on February 17, 2024, 08:57:39 PMAccording to Dave's math (and I think he is right)...if we were to slide back to Atlanta...swap thier 8th for our 6th...we would get their 2nd round pick 47th, but I would still ask for their 199th pick (6th)

If Atlanta is trading up you can bet it's to take a quarterback as Ridder has proven that he isn't the answer. Doing so would likely cost us McCarthy, a risk I personally wouldn't be willing to take. If we don't come out of this draft with a quarterback I will be really disappointed. We can't go on with Jones at the helm and DeVito isn't the answer even if he provided a nice storyline.

Quote from: madbadger on February 18, 2024, 03:11:10 PMIf Atlanta is trading up you can bet it's to take a quarterback as Ridder has proven that he isn't the answer. Doing so would likely cost us McCarthy, a risk I personally wouldn't be willing to take. If we don't come out of this draft with a quarterback I will be really disappointed. We can't go on with Jones at the helm and DeVito isn't the answer even if he provided a nice storyline.

The question was "What would be your trigger to trade back in the draft?" So, in your case, I would assume you would draft McCarthy with the 6th overall pick. For me, the RT is a major concern, and we are stuck with Jones this year. For me I would trade back and address the line and the other multiple holes we have on the team.

Quote from: brownelvis54 on February 18, 2024, 03:40:31 PMThe question was "What would be your trigger to trade back in the draft?" So, in your case, I would assume you would draft McCarthy with the 6th overall pick. For me, the RT is a major concern, and we are stuck with Jones this year. For me I would trade back and address the line and the other multiple holes we have on the team.

If you truly believe that Jones won't be on the roster after next year you have to make the move now not a year from now. You aren't going to want to head in to the 2025 season with a rookie quarterback if you can help it.  I agree that right tackle is clearly an area of weakness but we have multiple second round picks. We could conceivably slide up into the late first round to address that need or stay put if there are a couple of guys you feel comfortable with. Personally I shudder at the thought of having three top seven picks on the offensive line. Frankly I think it's a grotesque misuse of assets.