Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Philosophers on February 18, 2024, 10:29:41 PMWho exactly are you to. One on this board
You have the audacity to challenge an esteemed member of this board who also happens to be a knowledgeable college football fanatic and someone who writes thoughtful posts here?

You registered on this board yesterday and posted what 16 times?  You offer nothing except what the pundits say which is nothing but lazy follow the herd mentality.  As they say in a surf lineup.  Work your way in rather than try to take the first wave.

I realize now you are the biggest JJ McCarthy fan so I see why you feel personally attacked.

If that poster has an issue with my post they can discuss it, they don't need someone fighting battles for them.

I have seen JJ play and do not believe he would be successful with the Giants and the New York media. If we are all Giants fans, we should want what is best for the team not holding blind loyalty to someone for ego purposes.

Shall we get back to the discussion and not insults directed at posters for their opinions?

Quote from: EliWasrobbed on February 18, 2024, 11:24:36 PMI realize now you are the biggest JJ McCarthy fan so I see why you feel personally attacked.

If that poster has an issue with my post they can discuss it, they don't need someone fighting battles for them.

I have seen JJ play and do not believe he would be successful with the Giants and the New York media. If we are all Giants fans, we should want what is best for the team not holding blind loyalty to someone for ego purposes.

Shall we get back to the discussion and not insults directed at posters for their opinions?

Why don't you consider taking a break for a bit and reading how we discuss topics here instead of coming in here swinging?  Many on this board including myself have been on this board for 15+ years and have a real respect for each other even when we disagree.

By the say, I have never said the Giants should draft McCarthy.  I said I think he's the most NFL ready.  Until the OL problem is solved, nobody in my opinion will be successful playing QB for the Giants.  We need better OL play and a stud WR1 unless Hyatt's route running become elite next year.

Quote from: EliWasrobbed on February 18, 2024, 07:01:08 PMyou REALLY just said JJ is head and shoulders above Caleb Williams?!

JJ has been handled his entire college career with baby gloves, just like Daniel Jones.

Now he is going to the NFL where he a below average athlete (worse than Jones in that regard), with a very very mediocre arm. He did play against tough competition, but he also had the best college football coach in the nation designing a system to limit his faults and mistakes.

We also don't need someone who is "most ready" to win now, we need the QB with the highest ceiling who can be a franchise QB for 10+ years.. does this team look ready to contend? lol

We do not need another guy who struggles with processing and can throw off his first read but not much else.


The point of a Brian Daboll is to get a guy with MASSIVE potential he can develop into a stud like Josh Allen, not a Jones/MCcarthy type where Daboll has to scheme and limit his genius to fit a player with limitations.

And just like Jones, this is a guy projected to be a late 1st-2nd round pick all of a sudden getting whispers he might sneak into the early first. NO thank you. I'd rather draft an Oline than get stuck with this guy for 4 years


I would 1000% prefer a guy like Caleb or Drake who's "weakness" is trying to keep plays going too long and make some miraculous throw, because you can develop around it.

I genuinely think you didn't read what I said. I said JJ was head and shoulders above the rest being NFL ready now.

Josh Allen had significantly worst stats than Mccarthy coming out so that's a bad example as is saying Mccarthy can't process, when he's got the best processing out of the draft able qbs.

I get you tried but JJ is nothing like Jones, it's a lazy comp when all the scouts are comping him with Joe Burrow.

Next time digest the info, do the research, and come back with something better.

Welcome to the board.

There are three traits that I see a lot of disagreement when it comes to JJ.

1)  Arm Strength-  there are many who say that his arm is strong (plus arm talent, as well) while others claim it's mediocre or weak

2)  Athleticism-  There are many who say JJ is very athletic and some who claim he isn't

3) Processing-  There are some that say he is an elite level processor and others claim this is a weakness.

I have looked at quite a bit of JJ's tape.  I think his arm is above average.  I think his athleticism is above average.  Processing is harder to see, but I am impressed how you can see him working out a solution while under pressure and scrambling.


Still, that's just my view on these issue.  I remember a former NFL scout/head of scouting has scouted this prospect.  Here was Greg Gabriel's trained eye on those three traits.

Arm- McCarthy has a tight overhand delivery and a very quick release. His arm strength is very good, and he consistently throws a tight ball. // McCarthy is just as effective deep as he is with short throws. He is also good at changing his arm angle when needed in order to get a throw off

Athleticism-  J.J. is very athletic and can run really well for a QB. He's not going to run in the 4.5s, but he looks as if he can easily run in the mid-4.6s, which is fast enough for the NFL. One of the strong points of his game is that he does a great job eluding pass rushers, can extend plays with his feet, and can cause defense problems with his running ability.

processing- He shows that he can go through a full progression and make good decisions. He seldom forces throws, and that is why his interception numbers have been low for the last two seasons. What I like is he can go from one to two to three and back to one before he releases the ball. He sees the field very well. What also stands out is his poise and patience in the pocket. He doesn't get rattled.

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2024/2/4/24060710/breaking-down-michigan-quarterback-j-j-mccarthy-nfl-draft-quarterback-profile-prospect-projection

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 19, 2024, 11:37:17 AMThere are three traits that I see a lot of disagreement when it comes to JJ.

1)  Arm Strength-  there are many who say that his arm is strong (plus arm talent, as well) while others claim it's mediocre or weak

2)  Athleticism-  There are many who say JJ is very athletic and some who claim he isn't

3) Processing-  There are some that say he is an elite level processor and others claim this is a weakness.

I have looked at quite a big of JJ's tape.  I think his arm is above average.  I think his athleticism is above average.  Processing is harder to see, but I am impressed how you can see him working out a solution while under pressure and scrambling.


Still, that's just my view on these issue.  I remember a former NFL scout/head of scouting has scouted this prospect.  Here was Greg Gabriel's trained eye on those three traits.

Arm- McCarthy has a tight overhand delivery and a very quick release. His arm strength is very good, and he consistently throws a tight ball. // McCarthy is just as effective deep as he is with short throws. He is also good at changing his arm angle when needed in order to get a throw off

Athleticism-  J.J. is very athletic and can run really well for a QB. He's not going to run in the 4.5s, but he looks as if he can easily run in the mid-4.6s, which is fast enough for the NFL. One of the strong points of his game is that he does a great job eluding pass rushers, can extend plays with his feet, and can cause defense problems with his running ability.

processing- He shows that he can go through a full progression and make good decisions. He seldom forces throws, and that is why his interception numbers have been low for the last two seasons. What I like is he can go from one to two to three and back to one before he releases the ball. He sees the field very well. What also stands out is his poise and patience in the pocket. He doesn't get rattled.

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2024/2/4/24060710/breaking-down-michigan-quarterback-j-j-mccarthy-nfl-draft-quarterback-profile-prospect-projection

Rich - few thoughts.

Arm Strength - his arm is live and very good.  It's not John Elwayesque strong but so what.  He can make all the throws with high velocity/tight spirals.  Folks who doubt have watched zero of this kid.  Also throwing in the Big 10 means windy, wet conditions in October/November.  Keep that in mind when viewing his arm.

Athleticism - nobody is calling him Michael Vick.  I rank his athleticism at the QB position as 75th percentile.  I think that's damn good and adequate but not elite.  Same with his speed.

Processing - there is a difference between seeing a field and processing very quickly and making mistakes by being too aggressive.  His processing is very good. The prior year he made too many mistakes by being too aggressive but he reduced those.  Still needs to work on it.  That is room for improvement.

In Mike Lombardi's latest podcast, he made the topic of the pod- it's lying season.  His cohost Femi would toss out recent stories, and Mike would say if they were lies or true.  At the 17:20 mark, Femi asks him if JJ and Bo are rated higher by NFL teams than the draftnik community.

Mike is usually quite outspoken in his opinions.  Here, he suggests it could be true (he says Harbaugh wouldn't lie about JJ, and teams are intrigued and want to do more work...), but you can tell (at least I could from years of listening to him) that Mike is holding back because he knows something he couldn't divulge

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 19, 2024, 08:05:45 AMI genuinely think you didn't read what I said. I said JJ was head and shoulders above the rest being NFL ready now.

Josh Allen had significantly worst stats than Mccarthy coming out so that's a bad example as is saying Mccarthy can't process, when he's got the best processing out of the draft able qbs.

I get you tried but JJ is nothing like Jones, it's a lazy comp when all the scouts are comping him with Joe Burrow.

Next time digest the info, do the research, and come back with something better.

Welcome to the board.

And that's just not accurate when he's had a SYSTEM that babied him the entire time in college. Of course when someone has a coach like Harbaugh they will appear more "ready" than the guy who played for friggin UNC.

The Josh Allen referenece is that his CEILING is much higher than a guy like JJ's.

When you play with an AWARD WINNING offensive line for 2 years you better look incredible offesnively, and JJ merely looks competent. A =good majority of his passes were just dump off short routes or screen passes.

I have my opinion from what I've seen, I cannot think of a stupider pick than taking frigginn JJ McCarthy at 6. Right back at ya.

Quote from: Philosophers on February 19, 2024, 08:01:17 AMWhy don't you consider taking a break for a bit and reading how we discuss topics here instead of coming in here swinging?  Many on this board including myself have been on this board for 15+ years and have a real respect for each other even when we disagree.

By the say, I have never said the Giants should draft McCarthy.  I said I think he's the most NFL ready.  Until the OL problem is solved, nobody in my opinion will be successful playing QB for the Giants.  We need better OL play and a stud WR1 unless Hyatt's route running become elite next year.

Oh so now I'm the one who come out swinging?

Last I checked, you threw out personal attacks my way when your name wasn't even mentioned trying to fight someone else's battle. Don't talk about respect when you came at me first for no reason when you couldn't debate things in a respectful manner. Gaslighting.

And again, we already saw Tyrod have significantly stronger play with the same OLine than either Tommy or Jones did. The OLine while a problem is not the main concern, it is getting the right franchise QB.

Quote from: EliWasrobbed on February 19, 2024, 03:40:26 PMAnd that's just not accurate when he's had a SYSTEM that babied him the entire time in college. Of course when someone has a coach like Harbaugh they will appear more "ready" than the guy who played for friggin UNC.

The Josh Allen referenece is that his CEILING is much higher than a guy like JJ's.

When you play with an AWARD WINNING offensive line for 2 years you better look incredible offesnively, and JJ merely looks competent. A =good majority of his passes were just dump off short routes or screen passes.

I have my opinion from what I've seen, I cannot think of a stupider pick than taking frigginn JJ McCarthy at 6. Right back at ya.

Well thankfully they are not taking your suggestions because those takes are horrible. He had a 90 pff grade, with no elite weapons but sure competent lol.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 19, 2024, 05:00:25 PMWell thankfully they are not taking your suggestions because those takes are horrible. He had a 90 pff grade, with no elite weapons but sure competent lol.

They clearly are taking those suggestinos assuming they don't draft JJ. And of course, I'm sure Drake Maye with his elite weapons at UNC had it far easier than... 5 star #1 in the country Michigan and their skill group.

This is absurd. You're acting as if JJ didnt have literally the perfect scenario around him to succeed and still produced mediocre to average numbers.

Quote from: EliWasrobbed on February 19, 2024, 06:06:04 PMThey clearly are taking those suggestinos assuming they don't draft JJ. And of course, I'm sure Drake Maye with his elite weapons at UNC had it far easier than... 5 star #1 in the country Michigan and their skill group.

This is absurd. You're acting as if JJ didnt have literally the perfect scenario around him to succeed and still produced mediocre to average numbers.

Which numbers specifically?

https://x.com/realmaceblack/status/1759689066499494176?s=20

Quote from: EliWasrobbed on February 19, 2024, 06:06:04 PMThey clearly are taking those suggestinos assuming they don't draft JJ. And of course, I'm sure Drake Maye with his elite weapons at UNC had it far easier than... 5 star #1 in the country Michigan and their skill group.

This is absurd. You're acting as if JJ didnt have literally the perfect scenario around him to succeed and still produced mediocre to average numbers.

Is it possible that perfect scenario included mediocre to average numbers for McCarthy?

I rewatched the USC vs Notre Dame game that was Caleb Williams' worst game in 2023.  Two things stood out for me.

I think Caleb Williams is much more effective rolling out than he is throwing in the pocket in a more structured sequence.  In the NFL with highly structured offensive passing plays, I have questions if he'll be effective reading progressions.  That said, when a play breaks down, I do like him in those instances.

The other thing I wondered about which I had not paid attention to before is his height.  He looks more like 6'0" to me.  I think of recent QBs who are Wiliams size and they have not fared well in the NFL — Bryce Young, Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield.

Lastly, his 3 INTs in that game were reall bad throws and really bad decisions.  He did not play many good defenses.  Wonder how much he benefitted from those weaker defenses but also playing in drier, sunnier conditions.

Just some thoughts.

Quote from: EliWasrobbed on February 19, 2024, 06:06:04 PMThey clearly are taking those suggestinos assuming they don't draft JJ. And of course, I'm sure Drake Maye with his elite weapons at UNC had it far easier than... 5 star #1 in the country Michigan and their skill group.

This is absurd. You're acting as if JJ didnt have literally the perfect scenario around him to succeed and still produced mediocre to average numbers.

What? From those comments I'm going to just assume you don't know what you are talking about going forward.

Drake Maye had an elite offense in 2023, his offensive line led by Diego pounds and Tre Green were really really good, and his skill players were significantly better than Michigan's starting with 5 star Wr Tez Walker, the Jones, McCollum, and Nesbit. Not to mention their Rb Hamilton Tha went for 1500 yards.

NC skills trumped Michigan in Rushing and Receiving but sure stick with your narrative.

Michigan had a decent running game but no serious Wrs as Roman Wilson is nowhere the caliber Wr that Tez Walker is... so Michigan likely has a slight edge in Oline but UNC skills were better.

Through seven weeks, McCarthy currently ranked No. 2 nationally in completion percentage (.782), as well as No. 2 nationally in passing efficiency (195.92). He's also the most effective quarterback in the country when it comes to moving the sticks on third down through the air at 73.1% while Drake Maye (52.3%) and Daniels (50%) lagged significantly behind. At that point in the season he had 213 drives of which he scored on 130, 34 field goals and 96 touchdowns, which means he scored on 61% of all drives.

His 88.3 QBR was 3rd in the country despite NOT PLAYING A FULL GAME until week 9. Before week 9 he sat half way through games, had he played every quarter of every game like the other Qbs he would have easily surpassed Drake Mayes yardage and likely Williams. But you know let's not focus on details, let's just watch a random YouTube video and assume instead of actually looking at the numbers. Because for some reason 3,000 yards, 22Td 4Int while sitting at halftime if most games and having a 27-1 record in college is mediocre to you.

But sure whatever you think.

https://www.si.com/college/michigan/football/michigan-wolverines-football-big-ten-jim-harbaugh-jj-mccarthy-michael-penix-bo-nix-drake-maye