Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 24, 2024, 08:27:28 AMBob,

I can't help but feel like it's deja vu all over again. 

The last GM (Gettleman) came in with a similar "I need to fix the O-line" plan.

Gettleman drafted G Will Hernandez and signed T Nate Solder and G Patrick Omameh.


Schoen drafted T Evan Neal, G Josh Ezeudu, G Marcus McKethan, and signed G Mark Glowinski.


It appeared neither GM's quick fix solution worked.

With the 8th pick overall you're expecting a pro bowl caliber player and in the 3rd round you're looking for a solid starter. If either guy had lived up to expectations we'd be a guard away from having a solid offensive line. His scheme to fix the line would have worked if he had made the right picks, but are we sure we know what Neal and Exudu really are considering how bad Johnson was at his job?

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 24, 2024, 11:59:35 AMTwo FA Linemen helped the Giants win SB's. O'Hara (Cleveland) and McKenzie (Jets).

Ed: If my memory failed me, let me know, but McKenzie was in the right target age when obtained by the Giants, and I don't believe O'Hara was much older than that when they got him. Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on February 24, 2024, 01:20:49 PMEd: If my memory failed me, let me know, but McKenzie was in the right target age when obtained by the Giants, and I don't believe O'Hara was much older than that when they got him. Bob

Both had 7 year careers with the Giants. O'Hara was 27 when he came here and McK was 26.

Quote from: madbadger on February 24, 2024, 12:51:41 PMWith the 8th pick overall you're expecting a pro bowl caliber player and in the 3rd round you're looking for a solid starter. If either guy had lived up to expectations we'd be a guard away from having a solid offensive line. His scheme to fix the line would have worked if he had made the right picks, but are we sure we know what Neal and Exudu really are considering how bad Johnson was at his job?

No doubt the coaching matters significantly, but we have had bad and unstable O line coaching for years now, and Thomas has turned out just fine. Neal and perhaps Ezeudu would likely be better at the margin if they had received more competent coaching, but I doubt they'd be dramatically different players.

With Neal we got a bit unlucky, as he was a consensus top 5 or 10 pick and no less than the 2nd most coveted lineman in that draft. It's hard to kill Schoen on that pick (although he did make it and therefore he's responsible).

Ezeudu is a different story. He was totally off the radar when we took him, and the next day I was reading scouting reports that he'd be a "project" and would need some development, which I found dismaying for a guard taken in the top 70. That's a report I would expect for a 5th or 6th rounder, not an early 3rd rounder. I'm not sure what Schoen was doing there.

Quote from: madbadger on February 24, 2024, 12:51:41 PMWith the 8th pick overall you're expecting a pro bowl caliber player and in the 3rd round you're looking for a solid starter. If either guy had lived up to expectations we'd be a guard away from having a solid offensive line. His scheme to fix the line would have worked if he had made the right picks, but are we sure we know what Neal and Exudu really are considering how bad Johnson was at his job?

"If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas"


The reality is both GMs recognized the problem and neither was able to correct it

They were both drafted about a round ahead of the mean of the more respected media value board positions. That is on Schoen. You want a third round G to emerge as a starter by year 3 at the latest. If McKethan ever becomes a serviceable back-up that is at or above realistic expectation for (a reach at) pick 173.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 24, 2024, 02:13:00 PM"If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas"


The reality is both GMs recognized the problem and neither was able to correct it

Then why bring up their scheme to fix it in the first place.  The scheme was correct, the execution sucked.

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 24, 2024, 01:32:45 PMBoth had 7 year careers with the Giants. O'Hara was 27 when he came here and McK was 26.

Ed: Thanks.

The timing then was about right on those moves, and IMO that's what they should be doing now, except that hopefully they will find a guy who is at worst 26 and hopefully 25). 

I'm not too optimistic, though, because there will be heavy competition for such players.  Our only hope is to find a guy who actually WANTS to come to the Giants for whatever reason (doesn't like the team he's on or doesn't fit there very well or is originally from the NE, etc.).

BOb 

Quote from: Bob In PA on February 25, 2024, 09:31:38 AMEd: Thanks.

The timing then was about right on those moves, and IMO that's what they should be doing now, except that hopefully they will find a guy who is at worst 26 and hopefully 25). 

I'm not too optimistic, though, because there will be heavy competition for such players.  Our only hope is to find a guy who actually WANTS to come to the Giants for whatever reason (doesn't like the team he's on or doesn't fit there very well or is originally from the NE, etc.).

BOb 

A Conner Williams, Robert Hunt or Ezra Cleveland will cost them an average of 10-12 Million a year and they should pay it. Stop messing around with the Dregs. They can cut Glowinski and save a few million there. Don't tag Saquon.

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 25, 2024, 09:43:59 AMA Conner Williams, Robert Hunt or Ezra Cleveland will cost them an average of 10-12 Million a year and they should pay it. Stop messing around with the Dregs. They can cut Glowinski and save a few million there. Don't tag Saquon.

Ed: I couldn't agree more (unless the guy's a bad fit, in which case IMO they should just take their chances with the draft. That's the right approach, but don't force it. Bob

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 24, 2024, 01:34:03 PMNo doubt the coaching matters significantly, but we have had bad and unstable O line coaching for years now, and Thomas has turned out just fine. Neal and perhaps Ezeudu would likely be better at the margin if they had received more competent coaching, but I doubt they'd be dramatically different players.

With Neal we got a bit unlucky, as he was a consensus top 5 or 10 pick and no less than the 2nd most coveted lineman in that draft. It's hard to kill Schoen on that pick (although he did make it and therefore he's responsible).

Ezeudu is a different story. He was totally off the radar when we took him, and the next day I was reading scouting reports that he'd be a "project" and would need some development, which I found dismaying for a guard taken in the top 70. That's a report I would expect for a 5th or 6th rounder, not an early 3rd rounder. I'm not sure what Schoen was doing there.

They collectively lack the eye for talent at Oline positions.. that is the clear problem, based on clear failures.

Quote from: Ed Vette on February 25, 2024, 09:43:59 AMA Conner Williams, Robert Hunt or Ezra Cleveland will cost them an average of 10-12 Million a year and they should pay it. Stop messing around with the Dregs. They can cut Glowinski and save a few million there. Don't tag Saquon.

cutting Waller helps also I think.