Big Blue Huddle

Some really strong performances from the second tier of WRs at the combine is going to make for an interesting back half of the first round and offer some compelling choices in the 2nd in the event the Giants don't select Nabers or Odunze.

Guys like McConkey, Thomas, Worthy, and Mitchell really helped themselves, with the first 3, perhaps, pushing themselves into the first round. I really like Mitchell, as well, so wouldn't surprise me to see him go earlier than expected.

That means guys like Coleman and Franklin - 2 guys from big time programs originally projected to go higher - will likely fall into the 2nd. Not sure I'm high on either. But not sure that the next tier - Legette, Corley, Polk - makes it to them in the 3rd.

Giants will have to make some tough choices if they don't go WR at #6.

Agreed. Having two relatively high second rounders makes it a little bit more manageable though. If they strongly want a compelling WR in this draft, they have really three bites at the apple as there should be solid options with both picks in the second round.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 03, 2024, 07:07:47 AMAgreed. Having two relatively high second rounders makes it a little bit more manageable though. If they strongly want a compelling WR in this draft, they have really three bites at the apple as there should be solid options with both picks in the second round.

Agreed. But that's kind of what I was driving at. The guys who played themselves into the first (outside of Worthy) were the guys I was interested in with our seconds.

I think the gap between Coleman / Franklin and the Legette tier is not much, so do they roll the dice and wait til the third? Or, if they had their eye on a McConkey or Thomas and feel they're no longer attainable in the 2nd, does that compel them more to go with Odunze if Nabers goes #5?

Quote from: Stringer Bell on March 03, 2024, 08:16:28 AMAgreed. But that's kind of what I was driving at. The guys who played themselves into the first (outside of Worthy) were the guys I was interested in with our seconds.

I think the gap between Coleman / Franklin and the Legette tier is not much, so do they roll the dice and wait til the third? Or, if they had their eye on a McConkey or Thomas and feel they're no longer attainable in the 2nd, does that compel them more to go with Odunze if Nabers goes #5?

All very good questions to be asking.

I guess one point I would make on this subject is that Schoen has shown not only flexibility to be willing to move up or move down in any round, but also great preparedness for these drafts in that he has many of these conversations with other teams prior to the start of the draft. We have seen him enter into situation-contingent arrangements that allow him to either move up and get players he wants if they fall to a certain point, or move down to extract better value out of the players he wants and avoid blatant reaches.

So in theory if he wants one of the guys you mentioned who may have gone from high 2nd rounders to first rounders based on the combine, it wouldn't shock me if he moved up, and we might also see him move down in the second if he wants someone more like a Corley or Legette. Even if it's just something like 5-6 spots. This is a very strong draft (covid kind of bunched these classes together and the talent is really robust), so in my opinion this is a year where having an extra third or fourth rounder is more valuable than in an average year.

Good points.

The guy I forgot to mention who I liked going in and had a great combine is Walker. I think he played himself into the Coleman / Franklin tier. I would take Walker with our later 2nd if McConkey and Thomas are gone. It would be a real tough choice if Mitchell is still there.

Can somebody tell me what McConkey brings to the table what Wan'Dale doesn't? 

Quote from: nb587 on March 03, 2024, 08:50:46 AMCan somebody tell me what McConkey brings to the table what Wan'Dale doesn't? 

McConkey is a complete and legit WR. Wan'dale is a gadget guy. McConkey is a highly technical and elite route runner, drawing comparisons to Garrett Wilson. I can't think of a single aspect of the position where Wan'dale has the advantage.

I do agree to the extent that McConkey doesn't fit the traditional X receiver type associated with #1 WRs. Guys like Thomas, Mitchell, and Walker are more those types. But I'm about as certain of McConkey's success in the NFL of any player in this draft.

Worthy's record 40 time was impressive but he didn't participate in the other drills. I'm not too keen on Pro Days.

The LSU and TX Receivers are elite fast. There's a lot more to it than that at the next level.

I was disappointed in all the dropped passes, especially in the sideline to sideline drill. Wavering outside the line is a problem because as one of the player commentators noted that it allows a Defender to undercut the ball. Several had trouble tracking the deep passes and staying in bounds in the sideline passes.

I like Odunze and his stock rose slightly. He would be a first round pick that I wouldn't be disappointed in. After Penix showing, I would be ok taking him or Nix in the second round or moving up. I like Legett, McConkey and McCaffery. I can see the Giants taking two Receivers if they stick to BPA. Although that gives them 5 Receivers that they would be committed to. Odunze is a great choice because he negates the need for Waller, who is waffling on his future.

I get the feeling that one of the later round Receivers will emerge as a surprise, and a few busts along the way.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 03, 2024, 08:27:44 AMAll very good questions to be asking.

I guess one point I would make on this subject is that Schoen has shown not only flexibility to be willing to move up or move down in any round, but also great preparedness for these drafts in that he has many of these conversations with other teams prior to the start of the draft. We have seen him enter into situation-contingent arrangements that allow him to either move up and get players he wants if they fall to a certain point, or move down to extract better value out of the players he wants and avoid blatant reaches.

So in theory if he wants one of the guys you mentioned who may have gone from high 2nd rounders to first rounders based on the combine, it wouldn't shock me if he moved up, and we might also see him move down in the second if he wants someone more like a Corley or Legette. Even if it's just something like 5-6 spots. This is a very strong draft (covid kind of bunched these classes together and the talent is really robust), so in my opinion this is a year where having an extra third or fourth rounder is more valuable than in an average year.

One question I am thinking about is does he want volume say 6 bites at the apple or does he really want to try to fix 3 positions so will trade up to target a specific player and give up draft capital to do so?  I think he wants to fix the offense -- QB, WR and OL.

I think they can be a 0.500 team easily with the Giants D staying the same but the offense rebounding with much better pass blocking.  Dabs and maybe Schoen must know that to keep their jobs, they probably need to get to say 0.500 and are thinking about the best way to get there.  This is why I think they are going all in on fixing the offense.

The combine snubbed a good one in Dayton Wade. The guy had 55 catches for 830 yards as Ole Miss' #3 Wr. I know you might think #3 Wr, but Ole Miss is always loaded with Wrs so their 3rd Wr is usually better than most teams #1. Wade is small in the Wandale Robinson build but the guy just gets open always and had the 2 best catches of the year in college football vs Tulane and vs Georgia.

https://youtu.be/IzwyS4FX3qk?si=QWci5W-FShm9C-l_

Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 03, 2024, 09:50:28 AMThe combine snubbed a good one in Dayton Wade. The guy had 55 catches for 830 yards as Ole Miss' #3 Wr. I know you might think #3 Wr, but Ole Miss is always loaded with Wrs so their 3rd Wr is usually better than most teams #1. Wade is small in the Wandale Robinson build but the guy just gets open always and had the 2 best catches of the year in college football vs Tulane and vs Georgia.

https://youtu.be/IzwyS4FX3qk?si=QWci5W-FShm9C-l_

What do you think of Jaxson Dart?

Quote from: Stringer Bell on March 03, 2024, 09:01:57 AMMcConkey is a complete and legit WR. Wan'dale is a gadget guy. McConkey is a highly technical and elite route runner, drawing comparisons to Garrett Wilson. I can't think of a single aspect of the position where Wan'dale has the advantage.

I do agree to the extent that McConkey doesn't fit the traditional X receiver type associated with #1 WRs. Guys like Thomas, Mitchell, and Walker are more those types. But I'm about as certain of McConkey's success in the NFL of any player in this draft.

He seems to take the craft of route running very seriously -- when to change gears running, when exactly to make the cut and at the correct angle and to do it over and over and over again.  Plus those hands.  I must say I was not enamored with him early but the more I look at him, the more I think he's a legit NFL slot WR who will get huge volume and produce.  At his size and speed, he can play outside too so he's versatile.

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 03, 2024, 10:00:04 AMWhat do you think of Jaxson Dart?

I think he's the real deal, I've seen him practice in person a lot, and u think he'll be in NY this coming season for the Heisman. He's got Moxy, Swagger, grew up with qbs. I think he'd be Qb 3 in this draft, if this draft was next year.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 03, 2024, 05:31:46 PMI think he's the real deal, I've seen him practice in person a lot, and u think he'll be in NY this coming season for the Heisman. He's got Moxy, Swagger, grew up with qbs. I think he'd be Qb 3 in this draft, if this draft was next year.

He's impressive.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on March 03, 2024, 06:11:55 AMSome really strong performances from the second tier of WRs at the combine is going to make for an interesting back half of the first round and offer some compelling choices in the 2nd in the event the Giants don't select Nabers or Odunze.

Guys like McConkey, Thomas, Worthy, and Mitchell really helped themselves, with the first 3, perhaps, pushing themselves into the first round. I really like Mitchell, as well, so wouldn't surprise me to see him go earlier than expected.

That means guys like Coleman and Franklin - 2 guys from big time programs originally projected to go higher - will likely fall into the 2nd. Not sure I'm high on either. But not sure that the next tier - Legette, Corley, Polk - makes it to them in the 3rd.

Giants will have to make some tough choices if they don't go WR at #6.

I agree... we may have more WRs taken in the first and second rounds than expected.
When I hear that certain players had a good combine and improved their draft standing, it makes me think, they probably made themselves more noticeable, mainly to average fans and draft sites. Like McConkey, when I watched college tapes, his great talent was obvious; but somehow he was rated as a 3rd or 4th round talent on most sites; so he was very under-rated.. but by whom?! I don't think he was considered that low by pro WR scouts.
When I suggested that the Giants could take advantage of this kind of situation by trading down in the first round to near the bottom of the round to get him and also stockpile more high picks, people don't get it!!