Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 21, 2024, 11:51:52 AMFair question.  PFF has a stat, yards after contact per attempt.  Since it's after contact, you are removing the O-line (which usually had better run blocking than pass blocking grades) from the equation.

With a 20% carry filter Barkley ranked 23 with 2.91 yards for 2023
Had to remove the filter for 2022 Barkley ranked 73rd with 2.75 yards after contact per attempt
with filter 43rd with 2.69 yards after contact per attempt for 2021
Had to remove the filter for 2020 where he ranked 115th with 2.21 yards after contact per attempt
2019 Barkley was tied for 11th with 3.23 yards after contact per attempt
2018 Barkley was tied for 6th with 3.34 yards after contact per attempt

Dies that stat by any chance have a breakdown of where they were hit and by whom?

There is a difference when a 300 lb. DT hits a RB in the backfield compared to a 180 CB hitting him 5 yards past the LOS when the RB has hit full running speed.    That was really a rhetorical question as I am sure they dont break that down.

Just like Jones faced pressure quicker than other QBs, I am pretty positive Barkley was getting hit earlier than most other RBs.  I really dont need stats to tell me what I regularly saw - DL in the backfield making contact within a step or two of Barkley receiving the hand off. 

It's all good, he's gone and the team is moving to a pass 1st offense. 

Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 21, 2024, 12:09:13 PMDies that stat by any chance have a breakdown of where they were hit and by whom?

There is a difference when a 300 lb. DT hits a RB in the backfield compared to a 180 CB hitting him 5 yards past the LOS when the RB has hit full running speed.    That was really a rhetorical question as I am sure they dont break that down.

Just like Jones faced pressure quicker than other QBs, I am pretty positive Barkley was getting hit earlier than most other RBs.  I really dont need stats to tell me what I regularly saw - DL in the backfield making contact within a step or two of Barkley receiving the hand off. 

It's all good, he's gone and the team is moving to a pass 1st offense. 

Good point.  Are there stats for where initial first contact is made by defenders?  I'd be shocked if Barkley wasn't near the top of those lists pretty much the entire time he's been a Giant.  BIG difference in yards after contact, I'd imagine, depending on where that 1st contact occurred- after a RB has gathered some momentum or before they've ever had a chance to get out the gate (as we all know has been the case with Barkley so often with our awful OLs). 

Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 21, 2024, 12:09:13 PMDies that stat by any chance have a breakdown of where they were hit and by whom?

There is a difference when a 300 lb. DT hits a RB in the backfield compared to a 180 CB hitting him 5 yards past the LOS when the RB has hit full running speed.    That was really a rhetorical question as I am sure they dont break that down.

Just like Jones faced pressure quicker than other QBs, I am pretty positive Barkley was getting hit earlier than most other RBs.  I really dont need stats to tell me what I regularly saw - DL in the backfield making contact within a step or two of Barkley receiving the hand off. 

It's all good, he's gone and the team is moving to a pass 1st offense. 

PFF run blocking rankings for NYG and pass blocking

Year- RB * PB

2018-  16th * 25th
2019-  22nd * 16th
2020-  23rd * 32nd
2021-  21st * 30th
2022-  14th * 24th
2023-  30th * 32nd

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 21, 2024, 09:13:42 AMThe one nice thing about Barkley leaving the Giants was that I was hoping we had seen the end of the talk and threads about Barkley.   

Barkley was a huge disappointment who was over-drafted, underperformed, and overpaid.  He's gone, and I wish he was fully in our rearview mirror.

I couldn't care less what fans are still saying about the guy; it's between him and them.

This is probably a bit of a harsh take.

But the mistake was done by the person who drafted him at Nr 2. That was the primary mistake.

Drafting RB that high just doesn't work anymore in today's league.

Quote from: GordonGekko80 on March 21, 2024, 01:00:04 PMThis is probably a bit of a harsh take.

But the mistake was done by the person who drafted him at Nr 2. That was the primary mistake.

Drafting RB that high just doesn't work anymore in today's league.

Is it Gettleman's fault that Barkley has significantly underperformed Nick Chubb who were drafted a round later?

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 21, 2024, 01:08:25 PMIs it Gettleman's fault that Barkley has significantly underperformed those who were drafted a round later?

I think you nailed it when you said he was overdrafted Rich.

Don't you think the expectations were so high exactly because he was drafted so high?

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 21, 2024, 11:21:55 AMDid I say running back or "anyone"???   

 don't think you read past the first sentence Again: Calling Barkley a running back on the Giants when he was also a leading receiver in a lot of games ' is a bit of an understatement.

My thing was Barkley was that he clearly did not meet the hype/expectations of his draft position

But I still believed he could be a major piece to a franchise , but he's not the top guy so I don't blame Schoen for not overpaying him

I also liked Barkley as a person.. which yes its stupid but it did play a factor in me wanting to keep him..... but he went to the Eagles and went full heel mode. He got his money and now he is a d***. He used his daughter to take a dig at the Giants , whether she said that or not it does not matter. But he chose to bring that up for no reason after supposedly finally thanking Giants fans. The dude is the one who really cant let it go.

I know Barkley got his little 2-3 mil extra guaranteed but let me put it this way.

Where do we actually think he has a better chance of FINISHING his contract and getting ALL his money ?

You think the Eagles who already had a top 10 rushing attack before Barkley ...and being simply the Eagles have more loyalty on Barkley on a 3 year contract over the Giants who are overwhelmingly TOO loyal to players ?

If the Eagles fail to win a SuperBowl in a year or 2... or even somehow miss the playoffs and Barkley is still missing 4 games , playing 4 injured and just churning out 950 yards rushing the Eagles most likely will want some kind of a reset and Barkley will be the LEAST important key to their success. He is going to get the BOOT. Not Hurts, not the O-line, Not the Receivers . The runningback Barkley will be the cut casualty

He wants to keep throwing out narratives that the Giants did not offer him a contract which is a LIE then go ahead and do that. But it is very possible that in 3 years time he actually LOST 10+ mil not actually gained 2-3 mil

I hope you fumble the ball against us just like you fumbled the bag.

Quote from: Fletch on March 21, 2024, 01:16:22 PMEveryone and these rules ; RBs positional value in the draft; no second contract blah blah.

So the Eagles don't know that and they stupidly signed barkley to a big second contract? The Lions drafted a RB 6th and, they are stupid for that?

Not to mention the Lions actually have a QB that can pass. Calling Barkley a running back on the Giants when he was also a leading receiver in a lot of games ' is a bit of an understatement.

I specifically said RB, not "anyone"

Here is a list of top 10 picks in the draft. Is there really anyone there besides Josh Allen -- who nobody knew would be Josh llen then-- that you are really kicking yourselves over not drafting...

1. Cleveland Browns: QB Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma
2. New York Giants: RB Saquon Barkley, Penn State
3. New York Jets: QB Sam Darnold, USC
4. Cleveland Browns: CB Denzel Ward, Ohio State
5. Denver Broncos: DE Bradley Chubb, NC State
6. Indianapolis Colts: OG Quenton Nelson, Notre Dame
7. Buffalo Bills: QB Josh Allen, Wyoming
8. Chicago Bears: LB Roquan Smith, Georgia

I'll never knock the Barkley selection. The Giants thought and hoped they were getting the next Barry Sanders, an electrifying player who could dominate, frequently create plays from nothing, and had the undeniable potential to score every time he touched the football. Forget for a second that he happened to be a running back. Those guys that can go the distance any time the ball is in their hands are rare and it doesn't matter if they line up at tailback, wide receiver, tight end, or fullback. I also happened to believe that Saquon Barkley's character weighed heavily into his evaluation as the Giants were a bit of a mess at the time. Barkley was almost assuredly doomed to fail to meet the impossibility high expectations, especially after the "touched by the hand of God" comment.

Unfortunately the Giants didn't get the next Barry Sanders.

There was always a bit of unspoken toxicity surrounding Barkley even when he was playing well  Lots folks wanted one of the quarterbacks or just flat out hated Gettleman so much that they couldn't separate the two. It never went away and any time Barkley stumbled or was less than perfect you were going to hear it.

Barkley's career was derailed because of catastrophic injuries. It had to have affected his burst and his speed to a degree. Working off of an anemic passing attack where defenders would load the box to stop him and brag about the MO on the Giants' offense, was the word on the street. He had five years where the Run Blocking was 18th-30th. Stats for Yards After Contact are deceiving because if the TEs and Receivers don't execute their blocks downfield, that factors into the numbers, as well as the execution of the pulling Guard and Tackle. I would rather have had him over Darnold, who hopefully would have been replaced after a couple of bad seasons, but with this franchise, who would know?

While he was here, he was pretty much a great teammate, leader, and friend to the community. He felt he was disrespected by the franchise and he mouthed off. Ok, he's human. He's had some bad luck with injuries and the RB Market vs the timing of his contract. He also had bad luck getting drafted here. 

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 21, 2024, 01:55:12 PMBarkley's career was derailed because of catastrophic injuries. It had to have affected his burst and his speed to a degree. Working off of an anemic passing attack where defenders would load the box to stop him and brag about the MO on the Giants' offense, was the word on the street. He had five years where the Run Blocking was 18th-30th. Stats for Yards After Contact are deceiving because if the TEs and Receivers don't execute their blocks downfield, that factors into the numbers, as well as the execution of the pulling Guard and Tackle. I would rather have had him over Darnold, who hopefully would have been replaced after a couple of bad seasons, but with this franchise, who would know?

While he was here, he was pretty much a great teammate, leader, and friend to the community. He felt he was disrespected by the franchise and he mouthed off. Ok, he's human. He's had some bad luck with injuries and the RB Market vs the timing of his contract. He also had bad luck getting drafted here. 

He also exercised very poor judgment selecting an agent

Quote from: Fletch on March 21, 2024, 01:16:22 PMdon't think you read past the first sentence Again: Calling Barkley a running back on the Giants when he was also a leading receiver in a lot of games ' is a bit of an understatement.

Other than his rookie year Barkley was no big deal as a receiver.  He averaged 7.3 yards per reception, whereas great receiving RBs like McCaffrey and Tiki averaged 8.5 and 8.8 yards respectively. 

And yes draft position matters because RB is not a high value position and there was enormous opportunity cost by not choosing someone who plays a high value position or trading down.  There is a reason that a top QB, WR, LT, CB, or Edge makes a LOT more money than a top RB.  You get one of those in the draft and you have a 5 year bargain.  But Barkley was NEVER a bargain, because of his draft position.  There were a lot of very good players in that draft in high value positions. 

And every argument about 'excuses' that has been made against Jones applies equally against Barkley.

I never hated the guy and I thought he was the ideal face of the franchise despite his sub-par (for a #2 pick) performance right up until he didn't get what he wanted and made some weird public comments during last years negotiations.  Even his recent behavior after signing with the Eagles doesn't cause me to hate him but they have definitely caused me to like him a whole lot less.

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 21, 2024, 01:56:22 PMHe also exercised very poor judgment selecting an agent

That too but he corrected it although it was too late for LY.