Big Blue Huddle

Say what you want about Saquon....when he was in the line-up the offense had a chance to be functional. When he was out....it was UGLY.

I'm not complaining about not signing him, I understand the reasoning. I'm also hopeful about the OL specifically the new OL Coach.

HOWEVER: How do you solve having no offensive threat for defenses to worry about. We don't have a QB on the roster who can carry an offense. The best protection for a pedestrian QB has always been a dynamic running back who could run, block, and catch.

Are you as concerned as I am that (unbelievably) the offense can actually take a step back from last year?


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The OL they signed on day 1 of FA graded as better pass blockers than run blockers.  I have taken that in coordination with other moves as a sign  that they are moving to a pass 1st offense.  Thst has led me to believe they are likely to take a WR at 6 to fill that hole at WR1.

Edit:  I do share your concern as the only player that defenses had to game plan for is gone. 

Someone posted something similar on a FB group. While having a legit offensive threat to "scare" a defense, I don't see it as an issue. There are capable players at every skill position. Not knowing which player is going to get the ball on any given play is a benefit to the offense, IMHO.

Obviously, without Saquon, defenses will continue to pressure and confuse Jones. The faster they can get to him, the better for them. That pretty much goes for any QB. But, specifically for us, this is where Bricillo and the new faces come in. The line must give Jones time and open up holes for Singletary.

I think Hyatt and Robinson will have breakout seasons. Singletary will get more tough yards than Saquon.

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on March 22, 2024, 08:07:36 AMSay what you want about Saquon....when he was in the line-up the offense had a chance to be functional. When he was out....it was UGLY.

I'm not complaining about not signing him, I understand the reasoning. I'm also hopeful about the OL specifically the new OL Coach.

HOWEVER: How do you solve having no offensive threat for defenses to worry about. We don't have a QB on the roster who can carry an offense. The best protection for a pedestrian QB has always been a dynamic running back who could run, block, and catch.

Are you as concerned as I am that (unbelievably) the offense can actually take a step back from last year?


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If the Giants draft one of the 3 elite WR, there will be a player defenses will have to worry about.  Plus with the focus on the new WR, guys like Robinson, Hyatt, and Robinson could thrive with the lesser coverage.

Was Barkley ever that big of a threat though? Maybe his rookie year, but I saw him go backwards more often than forwards. I think not having to force it to Barkley might just open the offense up more and we are likely to get similar production from Singletary who runs forward.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 22, 2024, 08:10:45 AMThe OL they signed on day 1 of FA graded as better pass blockers than run blockers.  I have taken that in coordination with other moves as a sign  that they are moving to a pass 1st offense.  Thst has led me to believe they are likely to take a WR at 6 to fill that hole at WR1.

Edit:  I do share your concern as the only player that defenses had to game plan for is gone.

Well the problem with a pass first offense especially  in today's game is that you need at minimum an above average QB to run it.

You can get away (to an extent) with an average QB with a string running game. Now they have neither. That's my concern.


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Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 22, 2024, 09:32:58 AMWas Barkley ever that big of a threat though? Maybe his rookie year, but I saw him go backwards more often than forwards. I think not having to force it to Barkley might just open the offense up more and we are likely to get similar production from Singletary who runs forward.

As much as I love Barkley and will always think of him as a Giant, his offensive numbers were hardly off the chart. Of course, since he was our no.1 offensive player, defensive coordinators changed all their game plans to stop him first and foremost. Coupled with a good pass rush to keep our QB on his heels or running for his life, our passing game suffered as most plays never had time to pan out. So, as great as Barkley is, it kind of screwed the pooch for the offense since our o-line could neither protect the QB nor give Barkley much of a hole to work with

Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 22, 2024, 09:32:58 AMWas Barkley ever that big of a threat though? Maybe his rookie year, but I saw him go backwards more often than forwards. I think not having to force it to Barkley might just open the offense up more and we are likely to get similar production from Singletary who runs forward.

If this is a serious question here is my answer:
Big enough that he was the focal point of every defense the Giants faced.  Tough go forward when DTs are hitting you 2 yards.  If you put Singletary back there last year and tried to run the same offense he would have gotten maybe 2 YPG.  The problem wasn't Barkley, it was an OL that couldn't block and multiple QBs that weren't really a threat to throw. 

Not sure why that doesn't seem obvious to anyone who watches the Giants weekly.  When Tommy Devito was in, not only were the safeties not worried about a deep pass, the entire defenses flowed to Barkley. 

We Giant fans and management need to just repeat saying the year 2025. The Giants will not fill their needs for the 2024 season. This is a project. Think long term. What you can't get this off season get next. By then let's hope those needs shrink. Whether it be cornerback, receiver, or QB. Of course who you fill in this year depends on strengths in the draft. Don't worry about 2024. Worry about 2025.

No blocking, no offense, no success.

Skill position stars, none.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 22, 2024, 10:07:59 AMIf this is a serious question here is my answer:
Big enough that he was the focal point of every defense the Giants faced. Tough go forward when DTs are hitting you 2 yards.  If you put Singletary back there last year and tried to run the same offense he would have gotten maybe 2 YPG.  The problem wasn't Barkley, it was an OL that couldn't block and multiple QBs that weren't really a threat to throw. 

Not sure why that doesn't seem obvious to anyone who watches the Giants weekly.  When Tommy Devito was in, not only were the safeties not worried about a deep pass, the entire defenses flowed to Barkley. 

But isn't that a testament to how bad our roster is more than anything? Yes Saquan is a good back, I'm not arguing that but I believe as a player he's interchangeable with 10-15 other Rbs and that's what the numbers back up. He is very replaceable and wasn't worth the money he got this past season much less what he got this offseason.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on March 22, 2024, 01:33:17 PMBut isn't that a testament to how bad our roster is more than anything? Yes Saquan is a good back, I'm not arguing that but I believe as a player he's interchangeable with 10-15 other Rbs and that's what the numbers back up. He is very replaceable and wasn't worth the money he got this past season much less what he got this offseason.

I agree he wasn't worth what the Eagles paid and it was time for him to leave. What I disagree with is when you said he wasn't a big threat.  Yes, the issue was the rest of the offense was awful except the LT.  It wasn't that Barkley wasn't a big threat.  He was the only threat.  And enough of one that teams game planned for him. 

Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 22, 2024, 10:07:59 AMIf this is a serious question here is my answer:
Big enough that he was the focal point of every defense the Giants faced.  Tough go forward when DTs are hitting you 2 yards.  If you put Singletary back there last year and tried to run the same offense he would have gotten maybe 2 YPG.  The problem wasn't Barkley, it was an OL that couldn't block and multiple QBs that weren't really a threat to throw. 

Not sure why that doesn't seem obvious to anyone who watches the Giants weekly.  When Tommy Devito was in, not only were the safeties not worried about a deep pass, the entire defenses flowed to Barkley. 

IMO, the fact that Saquon was the focal point of the offense is more of a commentary on the offense than it is a commentary on Saquon.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on March 22, 2024, 01:50:01 PMI agree he wasn't worth what the Eagles paid and it was time for him to leave. What I disagree with is when you said he wasn't a big threat.  Yes, the issue was the rest of the offense was awful except the LT.  It wasn't that Barkley wasn't a big threat.  He was the only threat.  And enough of one that teams game planned for him. 

He was a big threat by comparison to everything else we had on offense yes but his advanced metrics and even DVOA, EPA etc are absolutely horrible even in the 2022 season were he was 4th in rushing. It shows an average back that wasn't a threat to me but that's just my opinion from looking at the numbers and I completely understand your point of view.

"2022 season he was 4th in rushing 1,312 yards."

"But he was 4.4 a carry which was 21st among Rbs."

Expected points added
"He ranked 49th out of 64 running backs with -0.10 EPA per rush-plus-target, 37th with -0.06 EPA per rush, and 52nd with -0.24 EPA per target. Barkley's -0.06 EPA per rush was actually the highest number of his career in 2022."

DVOA
"Among 42 running backs with at least 100 rushing attempts, Barkley ranked 21st with a 0.2% DVOA."

"Next Gen RYOE or Rush yards over expected
The Giants back ranked 16th in RYOE per rush with +0.396."

PFF
"Barkley ranked 27th among backs with just 2.78 yards after contact per attempt and 31st with a 37.1 elusiveness rating, indicating that he struggled to break tackles and make plays happen after contact. He ranked 19th with 0.89 yards per route run, indicating that he was about average in receiving efficiency. His 9.5% drop rate was the eighth-worst among backs."

So yes, he got yards But he was neither efficient or adding substantial value with those runs.

Numbers from BBV
https://www.bigblueview.com/2023/6/25/23772885/ny-giants-saquon-barkley-irreplaceable-as-he-appears-stats-analytics

Good topic that seems many are brushing off with little concern.  IMO, this isn't Tom Brady with the Patriots or Mahomes with the Chiefs. This is Jones with the Giants. No playmakers on offense. Not a single player that a defensive coach has to game plan for. Basically, all can be covered one on one. Maybe Hyatts speed comes into consideration but doubt it. The Giants offense, right now on paper, looks worse than the previous year, where it was brutal to watch. Looks like an upcoming year of an even more inept offense. I am concerned about the offense to say the least.