Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: londonblue on April 18, 2024, 01:26:02 PMActions speak louder than words. In free agency we added a guy who can start a few if needed but is not the threat that eg Russell Wilson would be. In a week we will see if we draft a QB R1. If so, DJ is on the way out. If not, DJ is the projected starter even if we take a QB day 2 or 3. We will rehash the same old arguments on here come what may'

Neil,

I think if the Giants do go QB in round one, it will be 2022 all over again.  The Giants will have Jones on yet another one year prove it situation.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on April 18, 2024, 01:27:43 PMFurthermore, it's smoke and mirrors season. Why show your hand 7 days before the draft.

But people can swallow up whatever they want. Nothing will change opinions until either a) they draft a QB or b) make a decision next year.

One thing, so far, is that, unlike Gettleman, we haven't witnessed Joe Schoen outright lie.  Schoen tends to speak in a manner that makes him difficult to pin down (most of the time) rather than using Gettleman's ham-handed, just lie-to-the-people approach.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 12:57:25 PMhttps://x.com/TalkinGiants/status/1780999156137361800


https://x.com/TheGiantsWire/status/1780997622553047304

Words < Actions

Giants pick RD 1 QB = Buyer's Remorse

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 01:29:35 PMOne thing, so far, is that, unlike Gettleman, we haven't witnessed Joe Schoen outright lie.  Schoen tends to speak in a manner that makes him difficult to pin down (most of the time) rather than using Gettleman's ham-handed, just lie-to-the-people approach.

I guess we will wait and see.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 12:57:25 PMhttps://x.com/TalkinGiants/status/1780999156137361800


https://x.com/TheGiantsWire/status/1780997622553047304

Given there's a better than average chance Jones is starting for his team next year due to a lack of other options.... he can't exactly say "yea, that was a dumb decision to sign him but we're stuck with him now without any options to get away"

If they draft a QB it'll be a pretty clear indication of buyers remorse.  Just the fact that he has already said they're looking at all the QBs is a pretty clear indication of it.  Nobody expected Jones to regress as much as he did in year 2 in the system.  But he did.  And now they need to get away from him as quickly as possible which means shortly after the 2024 season ends.

Quote from: Gmo11 on April 18, 2024, 01:35:16 PMGiven there's a better than average chance Jones is starting for his team next year due to a lack of other options.... he can't exactly say "yea, that was a dumb decision to sign him but we're stuck with him now without any options to get away"

If they draft a QB it'll be a pretty clear indication of buyers remorse.  Just the fact that he has already said they're looking at all the QBs is a pretty clear indication of it.  Nobody expected Jones to regress as much as he did in year 2 in the system.  But he did.  And now they need to get away from him as quickly as possible which means shortly after the 2024 season ends.

The part in bold is where fans differ from what is being reported in terms of how the Giants are thinking.  The Giants see Jones having played only 3 full games under the worst possible conditions and are unlikely to significantly change their opinion on Jones, while the fans who previously down on Jones declare those same 3 full games as proof they were right about all their criticism of Jones.  Don't forget there was also DJ's record-setting performance in the second half of the Cards game

Obviously, the injury issues are a different matter, and to that end, the Giants have done an excellent job muddying the water.   Jones claimed his neck injury last season was just a routine stinger.  Was Jones being completely honest, or was he downplaying his medical issues to help the Giants keep their cards close to the vest?

Quote from: T200 on April 18, 2024, 01:31:58 PMWords < Actions

Giants pick RD 1 QB = Buyer's Remorse

The fun thing about that point is it's a no-lose situation for those claiming the Giants have buyer's remorse.  After all, the inverse won't prove them wrong.  They can clam they were right in either outcome since we can't preclude a lack of drafting a QB is proof of a lack of interest in drafting a QB.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 01:28:02 PMNeil,

I think if the Giants do go QB in round one, it will be 2022 all over again.  The Giants will have Jones on yet another one year prove it situation.

If we take a QB in R1 Jones will have a year to earn himself a decent trade to a team where he will get a chance to compete because unless he either turns into peak Steve Young or takes a massive contract restructure and pay cut he is not here in 2025.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 01:42:30 PMThe fun thing about that point is it's a no-lose situation for those claiming the Giants have buyer's remorse.  After all, the inverse won't prove them wrong.  They can clam they were right in either outcome since we can't preclude a lack of drafting a QB is proof of a lack of interest in drafting a QB.

True... they may try to make a move for the guy they want and it doesn't work out. Initial point still holds true: they have buyer's remorse.

Until Jones is a former Giant, he will continue to bite Schoen and Daboll in the tush. Call it Gettleman's Giant Gift.

Quote from: T200 on April 18, 2024, 01:48:52 PMTrue... they may try to make a move for the guy they want and it doesn't work out. Initial point still holds true: they have buyer's remorse.

Until Jones is a former Giant, he will continue to bite Schoen and Daboll in the tush. Call it Gettleman's Giant Gift.

If Jones plays in 2024 and plays well, are we still calling it "Gettleman's Giant Gift"   

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 01:42:30 PMThe fun thing about that point is it's a no-lose situation for those claiming the Giants have buyer's remorse.  After all, the inverse won't prove them wrong.  They can clam they were right in either outcome since we can't preclude a lack of drafting a QB is proof of a lack of interest in drafting a QB.

I think if they don't take a QB, and one is available, it is an indication the team is fine with Jones.  I can't fathom that being the case.  Either half of that equation.  But that would indeed prove they don't have any buyer's remorse.  If they do draft a QB I think unequivocally it proves that they do and I'm not sure an argument can be made otherwise.

Whether the Giants want to say he played in 3 games in miserable circumstances or not his own play when he had plays to be made was awful.  Nobody will publicly smear the guy.  1) he seems like a perfectly nice and hard working player that genuinely wishes he could be better than he is.  2) he's very likely to be starting next season no matter what happens.  So they will continue to jump through every hoop they can to make excuses for what anybody that was paying attention could clearly see which is: Jones ain't it.  Might turn into a nice backup that floats from team to team for a few years but if he's your #1 guy you're not going anywhere. 

Yes that 2nd half against Arizona was other-wordly.  But then he has the rest of the season that he had and the whole thing is wasted.  The biggest problem with Jones is precisely the fact that he can have a half like that!  If he was a disaster all the time like Zach Wilson we could all point to him and say I don't know much but I know that guy sucks and he shows us just how much he sucks every time he takes a snap.  Jones is just not terrible enough to win 6-8 games a year but likely not more than that which leave the Giants in this QB hell.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 18, 2024, 01:50:24 PMIf Jones plays in 2024 and plays well, are we still calling it "Gettleman's Giant Gift"   

Yes... it will keep us in QB Hell.

Quote from: T200 on April 18, 2024, 01:56:58 PMYes... it will keep us in QB Hell.

It shouldn't though because as much as people try to act like Jones was magnificent in 2022, he wasn't the 3200 yards and 15 tds show that. So if he duplicates 2022 then in my eyes it's even more obvious we need a change. A 6th year Qb that can't throw for 4,000 yards when 4th rd picks come into this league every year and do it with less talent should be alarming.

If you think the naysayers on DJ are old and tiresome, wait until a year down the road and a QB like Bo Nix or Pennix, or Pratt turns out to be the second coming of Herbert...or worse, we pass on JJ and he becomes a star like Tom Brady. I can't imagine this board if DJ struggles and one of the QBs we passed on jettisons into a superstar. It won't be fun for the next decade with all the "We could have had Nix (or some other QB who grows hair on his chest and becomes a stud franchise QB). Even worse, we trade DJ, draft JJ, and DJ turns into the second coming of Brady with a good team around him and JJ sucks. Oh what fun that will be 

Ahhh...the good old, "time will tell" must be adhered to here. Draft can't get here soon enough

Quote from: Jclayton92 on April 18, 2024, 02:14:27 PMIt shouldn't though because as much as people try to act like Jones was magnificent in 2022, he wasn't the 3200 yards and 15 tds show that. So if he duplicates 2022 then in my eyes it's even more obvious we need a change. A 6th year Qb that can't throw for 4,000 yards when 4th rd picks come into this league every year and do it with less talent should be alarming.

Jones outplayed the 3 Ps of support, which is really what one expects a franchise QB to do.  Coaching was adequate to above average, but protection was below average, and playmakers (in terms of receivers) were non-existent.  Despite that, in terms of the quality stats, Jones was top 10 to 12, in that range.