Big Blue Huddle

Here are the rankings:

- 2019 ranked 17th -
- 2020 ranked 31st -
- 2021 ranked 30th -
- 2022 ranked 18th -
- 2023 ranked 30th -

The two years the Giants had a decent offensive line was in 2019 and 2022.

In both of those years Daniel Jones had his best seasons, including making the playoffs and winning a game in 2022.

The three years the Giants had an awful offensive line were in 2020, 2021, and 2023, ranked 31st, 30th, and 30th.

In those three years Daniel Jones had his worst years as a player, and the teams record was 6-10, 4-13, and 6-11.

My questions to everyone here is:

A) What can we learn from this data?

And

B) How important is the offensive line to Daniel Jones' success, and the team's ability to win as a whole?

No right or wrong answer here as I am just curious everyone's opinion?

Quote from: sxdxca38 on April 19, 2024, 02:22:38 PMHere are the rankings:

- 2019 ranked 17th -
- 2020 ranked 31st -
- 2021 ranked 30th -
- 2022 ranked 18th -
- 2023 ranked 30th -

The two years the Giants had a decent offensive line was in 2019 and 2022.

In both of those years Daniel Jones had his best seasons, including making the playoffs and winning a game in 2022.

The three years the Giants had an awful offensive line were in 2020, 2021, and 2023, ranked 31st, 30th, and 30th.

In those three years Daniel Jones had his worst years as a player, and the teams record was 6-10, 4-13, and 6-11.

My questions to everyone here is:

A) What can we learn from this data?

And

B) How important is the offensive line to Daniel Jones' success, and the team's ability to win as a whole?

No right or wrong answer here as I am just curious everyone's opinion?

The OL is important to any QB's success.  Ask any QB.

The other thing that struck me is that Jones has never had the opportunity to work with an offensive line that was in the top half (not top third, just half) of the league.  Talk about being in an unappealing position.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 19, 2024, 02:27:25 PMThe other thing that struck me is that Jones has never had the opportunity to work with an offensive line that was in the top half (not top third, just half) of the league.  Talk about being in an unappealing position.

Mighty,

That is a phenomenal point, you are so right, excellent, excellent observation!

Wow!

Thanks for your contribution.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 19, 2024, 02:26:09 PMThe OL is important to any QB's success.  Ask any QB.

yes, I agree, and thank you for your answer

So we were the 30th last year? Maybe I'm not remembering right, but I had thought the claim made by some here was that the line began to suddenly play much better once Jones went down, allowing the journeyman backup and undrafted rookie third string QB to perform better than Jones did.

If it was indeed the case that Tyrod and DeVito enjoyed better O line play than Jones, how did the line still ultimately only finish 3rd from the bottom of the league?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 19, 2024, 02:33:18 PMSo we were the 30th last year? Maybe I'm not remembering right, but I had thought the claim made by some here was that the line began to suddenly play much better once Jones went down, allowing the journeyman backup and undrafted rookie third string QB to perform better than Jones did.

If it was indeed the case that Tyrod and DeVito enjoyed better O line play than Jones, how did the line still ultimately only finish 3rd from the bottom of the league?

That was the O-line's overall grade.  The PFF's pass-blocking grade was dead last with a putrid 43.4.  Being dead last has degrees, so a line can improve and still be dead last.   Then again, for your claims to make sense, one would have to believe the return of Andrew Thomas (and the subbing out of Neal) didn't improve the O-line.

Still, if one is dead set on finding fault with Jones...

Quote from: sxdxca38 on April 19, 2024, 02:22:38 PMHere are the rankings:

- 2019 ranked 17th -
- 2020 ranked 31st -
- 2021 ranked 30th -
- 2022 ranked 18th -
- 2023 ranked 30th -

I wonder what the corresponding grades for our receiving corps are.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 19, 2024, 02:42:54 PMI wonder what the corresponding grades for our receiving corps are.

Here are the two rankings per PFF

Pass Blocking

2019- 16
2020- 32
2021- 31
2022- 24
2023- 32

Receiving

2019- 17
2020- 25
2021- 31
2022- 27
2023- 32

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 19, 2024, 02:48:22 PMHere are the two rankings per PFF

Pass Blocking

2019- 16
2020- 32
2021- 31
2022- 24
2023- 32

Receiving

2019- 17
2020- 25
2021- 31
2022- 27
2023- 32

WRs need a good OL too.  Marginal WR play may not be due completely with the WRs themselves. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 19, 2024, 02:48:22 PMHere are the two rankings per PFF

Pass Blocking

2019- 16
2020- 32
2021- 31
2022- 24
2023- 32

Receiving

2019- 17
2020- 25
2021- 31
2022- 27
2023- 32

The receiving core is just as bad, yeesh!

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 19, 2024, 02:33:18 PMSo we were the 30th last year? Maybe I'm not remembering right, but I had thought the claim made by some here was that the line began to suddenly play much better once Jones went down, allowing the journeyman backup and undrafted rookie third string QB to perform better than Jones did.

If it was indeed the case that Tyrod and DeVito enjoyed better O line play than Jones, how did the line still ultimately only finish 3rd from the bottom of the league?

Dave,

Thank you for your contributions, and you make an interesting point.

I would say that the competition that Tyrod and Devito played against was a bit easier than the buzzsaw that DJ ran into in the first five games of the season.

I also think Mighty's point is quite valid, that the return of Andrew Thomas "after" DJ got hurt would have to be factored into how the O line played better.

However, the data that has been presented is not just for one year, but over a five year period. In those five years the two years where the O line played well, the team and DJ had success.

The three years that it didn't perform well, DJ and the team failed.

Just curious, what data can we extrapolate with regards to the O line, and how much of a factor is it in the team's success?

Curious your thoughts? 

Quote from: sxdxca38 on April 19, 2024, 03:23:47 PMDave,

Thank you for your contributions, and you make an interesting point

Pleasure, and back at you.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on April 19, 2024, 03:23:47 PMI would say that the competition that Tyrod and Devito played against was a bit easier than the buzzsaw that DJ ran into in the first five games of the season.

Fair enough. Jones did face tougher competition in 2023 than the others, that is true. No argument from me there.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on April 19, 2024, 03:23:47 PMI also think Mighty's point is quite valid, that the return of Andrew Thomas "after" DJ got hurt would have to be factored into how the O line played better.

Ok, but Jones played two of his six games last year with Thomas active, and he looked utterly wretched in both games. He got hurt in the second quarter of one of them, so it's just one and change games (I get not a big sample), but there is no evidence that he was much better with Thomas last year than without him. And we have both seen him start plenty of games with Thomas at LT where Jones looked bad.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on April 19, 2024, 03:23:47 PMHowever, the data that has been presented is not just for one year, but over a five year period. In those five years the two years where the O line played well, the team and DJ had success.

The team had some modest success in 2022 (9-7-1), although they were a bottom third passing offense. What was the other year that Jones was the starter in which the team had success?

Quote from: sxdxca38 on April 19, 2024, 03:23:47 PMJust curious, what data can we extrapolate with regards to the O line, and how much of a factor is it in the team's success?

Curious your thoughts? 

I think offensive line play is very important and have certainly never suggested otherwise. Well all know the Giants have had very poor line play for a decade now. I don't think that gives Jones a full pass though, as some seem to. I think he has been bad, even taking that into account, and I would argue that last year was pretty telling in this regard.[/quote]

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 19, 2024, 03:56:32 PMPleasure, and back at you.

Fair enough. Jones did face tougher competition in 2023 than the others, that is true. No argument from me there.

Ok, but Jones played two of his six games last year with Thomas active, and he looked utterly wretched in both games. He got hurt in the second quarter of one of them, so it's just one and change games (I get not a big sample), but there is no evidence that he was much better with Thomas last year than without him. And we have both seen him start plenty of games with Thomas at LT where Jones looked bad.

The team had some modest success in 2022 (9-7-1), although they were a bottom third passing offense. What was the other year that Jones was the starter in which the team had success?

I think offensive line play is very important and have certainly never suggested otherwise. Well all know the Giants have had very poor line play for a decade now. I don't think that gives Jones a full pass though, as some seem to. I think he has been bad, even taking that into account, and I would argue that last year was pretty telling in this regard.

Yes but in one of those games (first game of season) with Thomas against Dallas, he got sacked I think 9 times and pressured heavily on well over 50% of his throws.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 19, 2024, 02:48:22 PMHere are the two rankings per PFF

Pass Blocking

2019- 16
2020- 32
2021- 31
2022- 24
2023- 32

Receiving

2019- 17
2020- 25
2021- 31
2022- 27
2023- 32

So DJ was screwed on both counts, although some will blame him for the WR rankings.

Thanks, Rich, for looking this up.