Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 21, 2024, 04:33:32 PMThat's the point, the overall dynamic is something we haven't seen in quite some time. It parallels 2004 and 2018 but the importance mirrors 2004.

I think the dynamic of this draft is twofold: 1) we need to fill about 8 holes with only 6 picks, and 2) Schoen has played the pre-draft period like a world-class poker player. No one has a hint of a clue what he's planning to do. That fosters anxiety and hope for us. One thing for certain, he doesn't think along the same wavelength as fans

Quote from: AYM on April 21, 2024, 06:42:40 PMI don't know if I agree with this. The 2007 draft directly caused the team to win the Superbowl as every single player heavily contributed.

Going back a couple of years, the 2005 draft was light on picks but gave us Brandon Jacobs, Corey Webster, and Justin Tuck. That was a monster draft too.

The funny thing with the 2007 draft is it gave a great bump during their rookie season, but there wasn't much sustained success



1   CB Aaron Ross   
2   WR Steve Smith   
3   DT Jay Alford
4   LS Zak DeOssie   
5   TE Kevin Boss   
6   OL Adam Koets   
7   DB Michael Johnson   
7   RB Ahmad Bradshaw


Pick for pick I think the 2005 draft class was impressive (they were missing picks due to the Eli Manning trade.  When you look at this draft and the Rams draft classes, I wonder if teams spend too much time focusing on their first pick.  It seems like teams that don't have a first-pick draft are better in the other rounds.


2   Corey Webster   43   DB
3   Justin Tuck   74   DE   
4   Brandon Jacobs   110   RB   
6   Eric Moore   186   DE      

While I understand Ed's point, I have a different take.   I think this is a case where the first batter is walking up to the plate in the bottom of the ninth with their team down 3 runs (and no one on base).  A good draft could be the start of a game-winning rally, but it just as easily could be the beginning of the end.

The reality is the team's talent level at the start of year three of Schoen's tenure doesn't seem all that different from the talent level he inherited.  While picking 6th is nice, only 6 picks is less than ideal, in light of all the teams remaining needs.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 22, 2024, 08:27:50 AMThe funny thing with the 2007 draft is it gave a great bump during their rookie season, but there wasn't much sustained success



1    CB Aaron Ross   
2    WR Steve Smith   
3    DT Jay Alford
4    LS Zak DeOssie   
5    TE Kevin Boss   
6    OL Adam Koets   
7    DB Michael Johnson   
7    RB Ahmad Bradshaw


Pick for pick I think the 2005 draft class was impressive (they were missing picks due to the Eli Manning trade.  When you look at this draft and the Rams draft classes, I wonder if teams spend too much time focusing on their first pick.  It seems like teams that don't have a first-pick draft are better in the other rounds.


2    Corey Webster    43    DB
3    Justin Tuck    74    DE   
4    Brandon Jacobs    110    RB   
6    Eric Moore    186    DE       

Rich, your pound-for-pound analysis as suggested by @AYM got me thinking that by not having a first-round pick, the Scouts and Accorsi were able to concentrate their efforts more on players later in the draft. An enormous amount of time and effort is spent on scouting the first round, visiting schools, attending games, and interviews, and bringing them in for a visit. Even having a late first-round pick requires scouting more than half that class in the event they drop. What do you both think?

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 22, 2024, 09:20:00 AMRich, your pound-for-pound analysis as suggested by @AYM got me thinking that by not having a first-round pick, the Scouts and Accorsi were able to concentrate their efforts more on players later in the draft. An enormous amount of time and effort is spent on scouting the first round, visiting schools, attending games, and interviews, and bringing them in for a visit. Even having a late first-round pick requires scouting more than half that class in the event they drop. What do you both think?

I am beginning to move toward that position.  It does seem that there is talent to be had in the later rounds, but teams are far too focused on round one.   When you look at the top 30 visits, as reported, roughly half the prospects brought in are projected to go round one.  There are 7 rounds in the draft (in the Giants case 6) so half the visits are devoted to round one and half the remaining visits are left for the next five picks.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 22, 2024, 09:15:48 AMWhile I understand Ed's point, I have a different take.  I think this is a case where the first batter is walking up to the plate in the bottom of the ninth with their team down 3 runs (and no one on base).  A good draft could be the start of a game-winning rally, but it just as easily could be the beginning of the end.

The reality is the team's talent level at the start of year three of Schoen's tenure doesn't seem all that different from the talent level he inherited.  While picking 6th is nice, only 6 picks is less than ideal, in light of all the teams remaining needs.

Rich, my point really centers around whether they pick a QB or not and how that molds the future in the near term and long term. Think of the multi-Universe or Dimension theory, where there are many choices taking action and each action creates a reality and that reality can branch off into other realities or Dimensions. This is the year because of the timing with Jones' status and the deep QB Draft Class where one decision can have profound consequences both favorable and unfavorable. For example, those six picks can go down to 4 or five and impact the 2025 Draft if they move up. If they stay and pick a QB, if they stay and pick another position, if they trade back once or twice and the players they choose, QB included or not.

This is a pivotal Draft Year.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 22, 2024, 09:24:01 AMI am beginning to move toward that position.  It does seem that there is talent to be had in the later rounds, but teams are far too focused on round one.   When you look at the top 30 visits, as reported, roughly half the prospects brought in are projected to go round one.  There are 7 rounds in the draft (in the Giants case 6) so half the visits are devoted to round one and half the remaining visits are left for the next five picks.

I think it's done more as a smokescreen and it's a waste of time. They should only be bringing in those players they need to learn more about. If they don't know this QB Draft Class by now, they never will. Now Nabors would be a productive visit because of the character concerns.

T minus 3...

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 22, 2024, 09:29:59 AMRich, my point really centers around whether they pick a QB or not and how that molds the future in the near term and long term. Think of the multi-Universe or Dimension theory, where there are many choices taking action and each action creates a reality and that reality can branch off into other realities or Dimensions. This is the year because of the timing with Jones' status and the deep QB Draft Class where one decision can have profound consequences both favorable and unfavorable. For example, those six picks can go down to 4 or five and impact the 2025 Draft if they move up. If they stay and pick a QB, if they stay and pick another position, if they trade back once or twice and the players they choose, QB included or not.

This is a pivotal Draft Year.

Ed,

I guess I just see the strong draft class as functionally an illusion owing to three QB needy teams drafting 1-3.   


The draft class of

Williams
Maye
Daniels
JJ
Penix
Nix

Sounds pretty impressive

The functional draft class (assuming the 3 QB needy teams draft 3 QBs) of

JJ
Penix
Nix

Seems a bit less impressive with the Giants drafting 3rd


I appreciate that the QB is far and away the most important position and drafting or not drafting players at that position are most impactful to teams, but I am just not that sure the QB talent that will be available to the Giants will be all that impactful, regardless of the move the Giants make or don't make.  Admittedly, from this vantage point in time, our vision is less than clear.  After all, no one was celebrating the Texans for drafting CJ Stroud.  Few people appreciated the Chiefs drafting Mahommes.  Even the Bills drafting the 3rd QB on the board or the Ravens sneaking back into round one to draft Lamar Jackson was met with much fanfare.

I guess while the draft is impactful, our witnessing it reminds me of bio-weapon attacks.   Bio-weapons have the potential to cause a great deal of death, suffering, and fear, yet the odd thing is that such an attack really isn't "witnessed"; rather it's the impact that is identified, as the deployment of such weapons usually is quite stealthy.  To some degree, that's what the draft is like.  Watching players being selected makes for great TV, as witnessed by the ratings, but the relatively unknown impact is what really matters.