Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Brooklyn Dave on April 27, 2024, 10:29:26 PMInstead of drafting Tracy in the 5th round do you think the Giants should have drafted Rattler, Platt or Travis instead ? Wouldn't that have more sense? Actually I am not sure if the Jets had drafted Travis in the 4th round

Why? Did they think any of them were better than what they already have. I don't think so.

I think it came down to the trade for Burns. 

With Pick 39, IMO they had enough ammo to buy Pick Three from the Pats (and take whomever - probably Maye).

So which would you rather have... Burns plus Nabers -or- Maye?  My favorite (Daniels) was already gone so I say they're better off with Burns and Nabers (and they still have next year's 1st-round pick in case they stink again this season).

Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on April 28, 2024, 12:31:12 AMI think it came down to the trade for Burns. 

With Pick 39, IMO they had enough ammo to buy Pick Three from the Pats (and take whomever - probably Maye).

So which would you rather have... Burns plus Nabers -or- Maye?  My favorite (Daniels) was already gone so I say they're better off with Burns and Nabers (and they still have next year's 1st-round pick in case they stink again this season).

Bob

Definitely Burns and Nabers, no question

Quote from: Bob In PA on April 28, 2024, 12:31:12 AMI think it came down to the trade for Burns. 

With Pick 39, IMO they had enough ammo to buy Pick Three from the Pats (and take whomever - probably Maye).

So which would you rather have... Burns plus Nabers -or- Maye?  My favorite (Daniels) was already gone so I say they're better off with Burns and Nabers (and they still have next year's 1st-round pick in case they stink again this season).

Bob

I have my doubts whether Kraft was going to approve any trade out of #3 and Maye.  I don't think the pick we traded for Burns would have tipped the balance.

Quote from: Bob In PA on April 28, 2024, 12:31:12 AMI think it came down to the trade for Burns. 

With Pick 39, IMO they had enough ammo to buy Pick Three from the Pats (and take whomever - probably Maye).

So which would you rather have... Burns plus Nabers -or- Maye?  My favorite (Daniels) was already gone so I say they're better off with Burns and Nabers (and they still have next year's 1st-round pick in case they stink again this season).

Bob

I agree with you, Bob. I think that's the position they were in.

Burns and Nabers is a huge price to pay for the 3rd QB in any draft class.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 28, 2024, 02:49:27 AMI have my doubts whether Kraft was going to approve any trade out of #3 and Maye.  I don't think the pick we traded for Burns would have tipped the balance.

He wasn't.

The elephant in the room is John Mara. It's obvious to me that Schoen partnered with him on passing on a QB. If Jones fails to elevate this team this season with the infusion of talent at WR, TE, RB and the FA Offensive Line upgrades, Schoen is safe for at least two more years. The only way Daboll would lose his job is if he imploded.

Mara has to pay Jones and there was no way he was going to sit this year out. Since as he said, they did everything they could to screw this kid up, his mindset had to be on giving Jones the support he needs to succeed. That's the only way a GM with no ties to Jones doesn't draft his own QB. All the BS about how Schoen took the job unconditionally, was all rhetoric because there was an understanding in place. They paid him knowing he would have at least two years to prove he's that Franchise QB.

The offer to move up for Drake Maye was weak. They knew the Pats needed a QB. They had no intention of ever drafting a QB. The signing of Drew Lock was their insurance policy.

Anyone who believes that Daboll and JJ McCarthy wouldn't have worked really didn't do their homework on that kid who has done nothing but win his whole life. I doubt Daboll was all in on this. If course he's no fool and knew how far to go.

So now, either Jones wows the football world, or Drew Lock gets his chance and if they both have nothin, say hello to Kurt Cousins in 2025.

I have been thinking.  Perhaps all the public QB shopping and the heavily leaked interest in Maye and QBs in general and the trade with the Pats were all just a smoke screen.  In Schoen's first year all the insiders had reported Thibs was off the NYG's board over character concerns.

The Giants may have really coveted Nabers.  There were reports that Nabers was the number one WR for many teams and that WR, not QB, topped the talent for this year's draft.   So here was Schoen sitting way down at 6 hoping to land the best player of the draft at a position of need.  What better way to pull that off than to make everyone believe the Giants were heavily pursuing a QB, even going so far as to leak it to Rich Eissen, who isn't even an insider?

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 28, 2024, 07:38:08 AMI have been thinking.  Perhaps all the public QB shopping and the heavily leaked interest in Maye and QBs in general and the trade with the Pats were all just a smoke screen.  In Schoen's first year all the insiders had reported Thibs was off the NYG's board over character concerns.

The Giants may have really coveted Nabers.  There were reports that Nabers was the number one WR for many teams and that WR, not QB, topped the talent for this year's draft.  So here was Schoen sitting way down at 6 hoping to land the best player of the draft at a position of need.  What better way to pull that off than to make everyone believe the Giants were heavily pursuing a QB, even going so far as to leak it to Rich Eissen, who isn't even an insider?

Rich,

Let's say for the moment that the Giants' supposed heavy interest in Maye was in fact no more than a smoke screen, and they always wanted Nabers and didn't want any QB. How would putting that smoke screen out there increase their chances of getting Nabers exactly? It was never reported they were particularly interested in McCarthy. It was all about Maye. Once the Pats took Maye, I'm not sure why any smoke screen would have mattered or why the Giants' chances of landing Nabers were augmented.

If they were hell-bent on specifically getting Nabers at all costs, the smoke screens that would have made sense would have been feigning heavy interest in Odunze and/or pretending to be turned off by Nabers (as they allegedly did with Thibodeaux). I don't follow why feigning interest in Maye augments their chances of getting Nabers.

I believe the interest in Maye was genuine. I also think their inaction around restructuring Jones' contract in this offseason speaks volumes about where they stand on him long term at this point, so it makes sense that they would have potentially had interest in one or more of the QBs available. McCarthy just wasn't one of them.

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 28, 2024, 06:58:34 AMThe elephant in the room is John Mara.

Ed: Reluctantly I agree. But I don't think it's as bad as you do. It's clear Mara believed it was necessary (at the risk of continuing to stink) to treat Jones fairly. The comment on which both of us hang our hats is when he said [paraphrasing] "We did everything possible to screw this kid up." Remember, the rest of the league (especially the players) are always watching in the modern NFL (where it's now commonplace for players to play for multiple teams) and it's a "good thing" to have a reputation of being a place where workers like to work and are treated fairly. I happen to agree 100 percent with Mara (not with the interference, but with his words). Bob

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 28, 2024, 07:52:14 AMHow would putting that smoke screen out there increase their chances of getting Nabers exactly?

Assuming 3 QBs go off 1-2-3, and the Cards took MHJ, that left a pick between Nabers and NYG.  As Gettleman how being a pick away from getting your desired WR (Devanta Smith) works out, when teams know you want him.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 28, 2024, 07:52:14 AMRich,

Let's say for the moment that the Giants' supposed heavy interest in Maye was in fact no more than a smoke screen, and they always wanted Nabers and didn't want any QB. How would putting that smoke screen out there increase their chances of getting Nabers exactly? It was never reported they were particularly interested in McCarthy. It was all about Maye. Once the Pats took Maye, I'm not sure why any smoke screen would have mattered or why the Giants' chances of landing Nabers were augmented.

If they were hell-bent on specifically getting Nabers at all costs, the smoke screens that would have made sense would have been feigning heavy interest in Odunze and/or pretending to be turned off by Nabers (as they allegedly did with Thibodeaux). I don't follow why feigning interest in Maye augments their chances of getting Nabers.

I believe the interest in Maye was genuine. I also think their inaction around restructuring Jones' contract in this offseason speaks volumes about where they stand on him long term at this point, so it makes sense that they would have potentially had interest in one or more of the QBs available. McCarthy just wasn't one of them.

I have no doubt that if Nabers was chosen before the Giants, they would have taken Odunze. They were never going to take McCarthy at 6.

Quote from: katkavage on April 28, 2024, 08:31:19 AMI have no doubt that if Nabers was chosen before the Giants, they would have taken Odunze. They were never going to take McCarthy at 6.

I liked Odunze but he was more the safe pick (high floor/lower ceiling).  I think Odunze's ceiling is occasional Pro Bowls, while Naber's ceiling is perennial All Pro

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 28, 2024, 08:33:47 AMI liked Odunze but he was more the safe pick (high floor/lower ceiling).  I think Odunze's ceiling is occasional Pro Bowls, while Naber's ceiling is perennial All Pro

I'm only saying that if Nabers and Harrison were gone, they would take Odunze and not McCarthy. The Giants are a "safe" pick organization.

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 28, 2024, 06:58:34 AMThe elephant in the room is John Mara. It's obvious to me that Schoen partnered with him on passing on a QB. If Jones fails to elevate this team this season with the infusion of talent at WR, TE, RB and the FA Offensive Line upgrades, Schoen is safe for at least two more years. The only way Daboll would lose his job is if he imploded.

Mara has to pay Jones and there was no way he was going to sit this year out. Since as he said, they did everything they could to screw this kid up, his mindset had to be on giving Jones the support he needs to succeed. That's the only way a GM with no ties to Jones doesn't draft his own QB. All the BS about how Schoen took the job unconditionally, was all rhetoric because there was an understanding in place. They paid him knowing he would have at least two years to prove he's that Franchise QB.

The offer to move up for Drake Maye was weak. They knew the Pats needed a QB. They had no intention of ever drafting a QB. The signing of Drew Lock was their insurance policy.

Anyone who believes that Daboll and JJ McCarthy wouldn't have worked really didn't do their homework on that kid who has done nothing but win his whole life. I doubt Daboll was all in on this. If course he's no fool and knew how far to go.

So now, either Jones wows the football world, or Drew Lock gets his chance and if they both have nothin, say hello to Kurt Cousins in 2025.

Can you imagine the shitstorm around here if McCarthy becomes a regular pro bowler? Well, it won't be just "here."