Big Blue Huddle

Much of the early criticism of Dave Gettleman was that he basically was a front man hired to do the bidding of the Maras.

For example:

"We aren't replacing Eli Manning. Build a team around him. Draft Saquon Barkley."

"We aren't replacing Daniel Jones. Build a team around him."

"We aren't trading Saquon Barkley. Pay the man."

Many suggested that if such ultimatums were issued at the time of Gettleman's hiring, he should have simply refused the job.

I see a lot of folks STILL insist that directives come from John or Chris Mara concerning Daniel Jones' future.

If Gettleman really should have refused the position based on Mara meddling, should the same criticism not apply to Joe Schoen? Do we really believe that Jones is still here because he is the pet of team ownership? Is Joe Schoen really bending to the will of John & Chris Mara? Is Mara Meddling really as big a thing as it's made out to be?

Quote from: TONKA56 on May 03, 2024, 09:26:19 AMMuch of the early criticism of Dave Gettleman was that he basically was a front man hired to do the bidding of the Maras.

For example:

"We aren't replacing Eli Manning. Build a team around him. Draft Saquon Barkley."

"We aren't replacing Daniel Jones. Build a team around him."

"We aren't trading Saquon Barkley. Pay the man."

Many suggested that if such ultimatums were issued at the time of Gettleman's hiring, he should have simply refused the job.

I see a lot folks STILL insist that directives come from John or Chris Mara concerning Daniel Jones' future.

If Gettleman really should have refused the position based on Mara meddling, should the same criticism not apply to Joe Schoen? Do we really believe that Jones is still here because he is the pet of team ownership? Is Joe Schoen really bending to the will of John & Chris Mara? Is Mara Meddling really as big a thing as it's made out to be?

Schoen is just a more astute, good looking, educated Puppet but a puppet nonetheless.  You nailed that puzzle

Conspiracy theories are a sign of the times.

I do not think Mara directs the board.  Sign off on a 1st round pick or big ticket FA is not the same as steering the ship toward one

Quote from: babywhales on May 03, 2024, 09:37:53 AMConspiracy theories are a sign of the times.

I do not think Mara directs the board.  Sign off on a 1st round pick or big ticket FA is not the same as steering the ship toward one

Yes but the results bear out this conspiracy and fit the key to the lock perfectly. (no pun intended on Lock LOL)

Quote from: babywhales on May 03, 2024, 09:37:53 AMConspiracy theories are a sign of the times.

I do not think Mara directs the board.  Sign off on a 1st round pick or big ticket FA is not the same as steering the ship toward one

I think the majority of folks on this board agree with you Chris but there is undoubtedly a vocal minority that do not.

Quote from: babywhales on May 03, 2024, 09:37:53 AMConspiracy theories are a sign of the times.

I do not think Mara directs the board.  Sign off on a 1st round pick or big ticket FA is not the same as steering the ship toward one

I completely agree.  Mara has been adamant that the GM has the final say.   There have been zero reports from any insider suggesting that Mara is lying when he says that.   To some fans, Mara has become the cartoon villain that every bad or unlucky decision is blamed on.

To be fair, I might be a bit biased because I consider conspiracy theories the bastion of the weak-minded.

I think the Jones deal was the confluence of a number of circumstances, not simply the will of John Mara. The Giants had won a playoff game--which also meant they were picking at the back half and replacing the QB through the draft was significantly tougher--and Mara assuredly, by all accounts, wants Jones to be the guy. I don't think Schoen was compelled to do the deal, but there were a lot of forces at work pulling them in that direction, including Mara's obvious and publicly-stated position on the matter (a stupid thing to announce to the media, but I digress).

Mara ostensibly approved Schoen offering to trade up for Drake Maye, so I don't think he is carte blanche refusing to move on from Jones. The real problem is that he makes his feelings clear to the media (e.g., comments that the Giants had "done everything" to screw up Daniel Jones) and that undoubtedly affects how Schoen does his job. That's poor ownership habits from John Mara. Fine to feel that way, but to put that external pressure on a GM is not effective leadership.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 03, 2024, 10:04:57 AMI completely agree.  Mara has been adamant that the GM has the final say.  There have been zero reports from any insider suggesting that Mara is lying when he says that.  To some fans, Mara has become the cartoon villain that every bad or unlucky decision is blamed on.

To be fair, I might be a bit biased because I consider conspiracy theories the bastion of the weak-minded.

LOL ok then.  Mara is a benevolent bystander no doubt.  I apologize for my accusatory stance.

Quote from: BluesCruz on May 03, 2024, 09:37:19 AMSchoen is just a more astute, good looking, educated Puppet but a puppet nonetheless.  You nailed that puzzle

I respectfully disagree with your statement and here is why.

Schoen has repeatedly said in interviews that in the past someone talked him out of picking the player that he wanted in the draft, and that player went on to have an excellent career.

He has been adamant that he will never allow someone to do that to him again, he will always go with his gut, and that includes Mara.

Quote from: TONKA56 on May 03, 2024, 09:53:36 AMI think the majority of folks on this board agree with you Chris but there is undoubtedly a vocal minority that do not.

I don't think he interferes with decisions so much as he just can't shut up.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on May 03, 2024, 10:18:37 AMI respectfully disagree with your statement and here is why.

Schoen has repeatedly said in interviews that in the past someone talked him out of picking the player that he wanted in the draft, and that player went on to have an excellent career.

He has been adamant that he will never allow someone to do that to him again, he will always go with his gut, and that includes Mara.

Ok so Machiavellian thinking does not come into play with the Mara's
They are totally transparent.  NOT!

There's no conspiracy. Mara hires the GMs and has a voice in the hiring of the coach and also the major money moves, including top draft picks. So in hiring the GMs he is finding someone who aligns with his sensibilities. That's not bad or uncommon. The problem is, Mara's sensibilities when it comes to football and team development, and player personnel are usually very conservative, predictable, and behind the times. His father was the same way. As a result, the GM, because he has similar ideas and thoughts on team building as the owner, won't waver too much from that conservative, safe, sensibility. The result is mediocrity...at best. Could you ever see a maverick or radical (in terms of how he looks at the game) working for Mara? So that is where his influence comes into play.

Quote from: katkavage on May 03, 2024, 12:06:07 PMThere's no conspiracy. Mara hires the GMs and has a voice in the hiring of the coach and also the major money moves, including top draft picks. So in hiring the GMs he is finding someone who aligns with his sensibilities. That's not bad or uncommon. The problem is, Mara's sensibilities when it comes to football and team development, and player personnel are usually very conservative, predictable, and behind the times. His father was the same way. As a result, the GM, because he has similar ideas and thoughts on team building as the owner, won't waver too much from that conservative, safe, sensibility. The result is mediocrity...at best. Could you ever see a maverick or radical (in terms of how he looks at the game) working for Mara? So that is where his influence comes into play.

How did John and his father manage to go to 5 Super Bowls and bring home four trophies? 

Quote from: BluesCruz on May 03, 2024, 11:54:42 AMOk so Machiavellian thinking does not come into play with the Mara's
They are totally transparent.  NOT!

No, Schoen may have conversations with Mara about what he wants to do, but he and Daboll have final say.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 03, 2024, 12:09:48 PMHow did John and his father manage to go to 5 Super Bowls and bring home four trophies? 

That's a really good question Rich- Let me try to answer succinctly with no sarcasm

Broken clock right 2x per day?  Emphasis on D when D ruled the world of the NFL?

All those trophies came to teams that were not steamrollers by any means

All came from management that was forced on the Maras by fan revolt

All these teams grew in ability as the football year passed, they were late chargers

We were never a dominant multi-year powerhouse

A lot of it was sheer force of will and sometimes incredible good fortune like "The Catch" to beat the Patriots

We never had dominant QBs but adequate ones

We thrived on excellent DE play

I believe Schoen is a smart guy, and rather that go head to head with Mara he placated him keeping Jones and Barkley despite knowing he would not win with either and playing them full time so that Mara was happy.  Schoen knew he had many many holes to fill and losing meant good draft position year after year until he was ready to pounce

We won't win another if we do not adapt to the new rules and the extreme emphasis on offense of todays game while maintaining a strong D

Without a real NFL QB who has pocket awareness and can make all the throws we might not see another Lombardy in my lifetime- Im 77

Now the worm is finally turning.  Tommy broke the Eagles stranglehold
Their house is crumbling- Kelce knew when the right moment was to exit

My prediction- Tommy will get the reigns by mid season.  He has the mindset and all the tools to bring us back

The roster has gone from tragic when Schoen arrived to on the verge of
competing for real

Schoen does not want Jones and Drew Whatshisface is just a head fake to buy Time.

By this time next year DeVito will be the starter or we will acquire a top flight QB from the draft or trade- then things get interesting

Other possibility- The team just jells and we start another improbable march to another Lombardy even as soon as this year...there are no steamrollers in this NFL.  The NFL has achieved parity- perfect conditions for us to re-arise like the Phoenix