Big Blue Huddle

On the best Giants teams we saw a player development progression where over 2-3 years they went from say marginal backup to a very solid starter or ok starter to impactful starter.  Look at Linval Joseph, Barry Cofield, Kareem McKenzie, David Diehl, Ahmad Bradshaw, etc., etc.

Over the past 10 years, that has really fallen off

How many players on the Giants current roster can you point to and really applaud their development?

I think the Giants have two outstanding position coaches who have done a solid job developing talent

D-line coach- Andre Patterson
DB coach/passing game coordinator- Jerome Henderson

Both of these coaches have done a great job getting the most out of questionable talent

Then there is the imported O-line coach, Carmen Bricillo, who has never coached an O-line that was top 10 according to PFF

I think ILB coach, John Egorugwu, has done a pretty good job in the past 2-years coaching up the ILBs


Beyond that, I think the other position coaches have been average at best.

I agree that the team has not done a good job of getting the most out of their players, but I would disagree with some of those names in terms of being considered "marginal backups" at any point in time. 

Linval Joseph played his best ball after he left the Giants. 
Kareem McKenzie was a starter for the Giants day 1 and a good one.
Bradshaw didn't get many opportunities early.  Never saw him as marginal, but he did develop into a bigger role

Quote from: uconnjack8 on May 13, 2024, 01:33:50 PMI agree that the team has not done a good job of getting the most out of their players, but I would disagree with some of those names in terms of being considered "marginal backups" at any point in time. 

Linval Joseph played his best ball after he left the Giants. 
Kareem McKenzie was a starter for the Giants day 1 and a good one.
Bradshaw didn't get many opportunities early.  Never saw him as marginal, but he did develop into a bigger role

Pick whatever names you want.  Kevin Boss, Billy Ard, Jim Burt, etc.  The point is mid-late round picks who developed and became good starting players.

Quote from: Philosophers on May 14, 2024, 10:30:35 AMPick whatever names you want.  Kevin Boss, Billy Ard, Jim Burt, etc.  The point is mid-late round picks who developed and became good starting players.

Well I would start with actual Giants mid-round picks and not FAs or 2nd round picks.   Sorry if my point upset you.

I also feel like when Reese was GM fans weren't calling it a development issue but a drafting issue.  He had a streak of poor 3rd rounders that never contributed and I don't recall anyone saying it was development.

There is one factor over the last 10 years that I think has probably had an effect on development - the carousel of coaching changes.  Players drafted in the mid to late rounds are drafted with a development plan in mind.  When their is new coaches in place 2 years later, they won't look at that player the same or have a role in mind for them. 

However true that may be, and, in any case, of no consolation, it can be said for at least half the teams in the League except perhaps Jerrah's Boys who through some twist of fate haven't played for a Conference Championship in what will be 29 years, or almost 2 1/2 times longer than Our Heroes. That gotta hurt! Then again, it's been even worse for Washington's NFC Least.

Cheers!

Development has been a big issue but the current roster does suggest it is improving IMO.

We have day 3 draft picks and UDFA set to start or play prominent roles in Slayton, Bellinger, McFadden. We have Brightwell, Coughlin who have both played important ST roles (and the departed Cam Brown gets a nod).

We have also rescued cast-off day 3 and UDFA from others and made something of them in Pinnock (drafted & cut by Jets with zero nfl snaps), Hodgins (4 nfl receptions) & McCloud (no nfl tackles etc.).

Holmes might be on his way out but Anderson, Fox, Davidson, Riley, Beavers, Belton, Hawkins III, Owens and this year's rookies will all get a chance to establish roles. I think it is fair to expect at least two of them to contribute positively and a couple more to be on ST.

And we cannot forget the UDFA QB who won games as a rookie...

I actually think Round 3 is our Kryptonite. Hopefully Hyatt and Phillips change that.

It's just amazing how woefully deficient the 2024 Gmen are to say the 2006 team.  Just go position by position.

Want to get really deptessed?  Look at the 2nd stringers

Quote from: Philosophers on May 16, 2024, 09:31:37 PMIt's just amazing how woefully deficient the 2024 Gmen are to say the 2006 team.  Just go position by position.

Want to get really deptessed?  Look at the 2nd stringers

2006




2024

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 17, 2024, 11:38:20 AM2006




2024

Terrell Thomas 3rd string?  Wow.

A stunning difference in ROI for the OL.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on May 17, 2024, 09:18:11 PMA stunning difference in ROI for the OL.

The 2006 was before the 2011 CBA.  The owners traded away practice time for more money.  As a result there has been a chronic shortage of offensive linemen because there isn't enough time to properly develop them.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 18, 2024, 06:53:30 AMThe 2006 was before the 2011 CBA.  The owners traded away practice time for more money.  As a result there has been a chronic shortage of offensive linemen because there isn't enough time to properly develop them.

Still,  the 2006 squad had 2md round pick, 3rd that was signed from another team and a 5th along with two UDGAs.  The current squad has two high #1s and a 2nd.  Is the CBA why 2 of those high picks haven't developed? Were all the other teams in the NFL able to develop UDFAs and late picks as well in 2006.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on May 18, 2024, 07:28:33 AMStill,  the 2006 squad had 2md round pick, 3rd that was signed from another team and a 5th along with two UDGAs.  The current squad has two high #1s and a 2nd.  Is the CBA why 2 of those high picks haven't developed? Were all the other teams in the NFL able to develop UDFAs and late picks as well in 2006.

I can't answer with certainty, but I think there is a good chance the answer is yes.  You listen to any linemen or coach talk about practice and the offensive line, and they always talk about the only time it really helps is when the pads go one (which is quite rare now).   Prior to 2011, if an offensive lineman struggled, they would get extra practice (with pads) after the regular practice.   That simply isn't allowed anymore.   As I said, there is a chronic shortage of quality linemen these days.  That's because the guys don't have a chance to develop into NFL-caliber linemen.   There is only so much an offensive linemen can develop blocking against air or in padless practices.

I dont know.  Pats drafted Michael Onwenu in like the 5th riund and he was a good starter.  Chiefs drafted Trey Smith in 5th or 6th round and he's a starter.

Giants cant produce a healthy, effective OL if their life depended on it.