Big Blue Huddle

It seems Carl Banks has had enough.  I know some of you will dismiss Carl Banks as a company stooge, but from my years of listening to him, Carl Banks calls it as he sees it.   He may not go heavy on the criticism as would be expected by someone who also works for the Giants (the Podcast is not a Giants sanctioned), but Carl doesn't act like the team's cheerleader, either. 

https://x.com/CarlBanksGIII/status/1791449243762270431


If you want more context and more comments, here is the entire podcast


Dear Toxic Giants Fans, Root for Daniel Jones

In this episode, Bob Papa and Carl Banks discuss a recent tweet from Bob that wasn't related to Daniel Jones and sparked backlash from Giants fans. They talk about why it's counterproductive for fans to root against Jones. They explore Daniel Jones's challenges over the years, highlighting the lack of stability from coaching and inadequate support on the field. By comparing the Giants' situation to other franchises, they shed light on why fans need to appreciate what this storied franchise has accomplished. Lastly, they touch on Hard Knocks' during this 100th season and how fans will see behind-the-scenes access during the off-season.  #tellafriendtotellafriend

When has anyone that is an actual giants fan in this forum rooted against Daniel Jones? Ever...

If anything Daniel Jones being great would make everything significantly easier for the football team.

Do we now also think that the people that believe Neal is horrible are also actively rooting against him as well?

So "insert player" is bad, so the fan base must be actively rooting against him?

You hear more about Jones than other players because his play hasn't elevated year on year with his pay.

People thinking Jones is a bad Qb and rooting against him are two very different things. Most people that are actual Giants fans acknowledge how bad he's been then when the whistlebl blows are locked in on the Giants and Jones winning.

Mr. Banks is an honest man put (too often) in the difficult position of having to criticize the people who pay him.

I for one believe he is SENSATIONAL at his job.

If you listen very very closely to each and every comment (especially during games), not only to the words but the tone and tenor of his voice, you'll hear him calling the balls and strike as fairly as any judge (and he's a really nice man, the kind of guy any fan would love to hang around with). He does soft-pedal the criticism... but he NEVER avoids it. IMO a truly undervalued member of the Giants' overall "team" of employees.

Bob

I like Carl Banks and I respect him, Bob Papa too. However, no employee of the NYG's should be criticizing the fan base on who they support or don't support and who they feel deserves criticism or praise. That would include not only the players but the Coaches, GM, Scouts and Owners.

That said, anyone who wants the Giants to lose any game or for rooting against a player, should examine their own priorities. I don't work for the Giants so as a fan I can say that blaming Tommy DeVito for winning meaningless games doesn't understand the mentality that is coached into players to leave nothing on the field and how every win is meaningful. Teams that tank the season have no respect for their players or the fans who spend hard earned money and their valuable time to support the team. When you tell players that this game is not important, you've killed the team. Fans that put that out are more disrespectful than anyone who may be angry or disappointed that a player of suboptimal performance is supported by Management.

Is the goal of Carl and Bob to show the door to disgruntled fans or to correct their behavior? The optics of those remarks are quite poor. Perhaps a better fan base would be the Casual fan or the bandwagon jumpers that other teams have as their base. Resulting in empty seats and abandoned seat licenses.

There's a difference in the Twitter Moron looking for attention with no consequences and the 24/7/365 fan who comes to discuss football and the NYG's. Providing material to discredit those fans at every opportunity is poor form.

Not a company stooge but doesn't go heavy on the criticism is an oxymoron.

Anyway, I've not read a poster here that doesn't want Jones to succeed.

So I guess his criticism doesn't apply to this community. 

From how I see it, the "goofy brigade" is represented by both sides in the DJ debate. To put out a podcast about a "goofy brigade" is, well, goofy.

Since Jones' actual production and numbers have been poor to mediocre overall, if one is a believer that he's not a poor to mediocre starting QB, one must, by default, have the view that other players around him are poor to mediocre. Either way, whichever view you personally take, you're criticizing players on the Giants' offense. You're either saying the offensive linemen and receivers suck, or you're saying Jones sucks (or both). Why are those who are critical of Jones not real fans, but those who claim Jones is good but everyone else around him sucks are? Both groups of people are "shitting on" players on their football team (to use Banks' elegant language). How is the second group of fans more real than the first?

I also fully agree with other posters that there is a very big difference between observing the performance of a player and being critical of it and rooting against said player. I would assume, or hope at least, that most regulars in this forum are able understand that difference.

Carl engages with fans on Twitter quite often and I suspect his criticism is directed at those folks.  I've read some of those tweets and quite a few have openly expressed a desire for DJ to fail

I think the frustration that Bob and Carl expressed has more to do with how fans go overboard in their criticism of Daniel Jones, rather than their opinion of Daniel Jones.  We have seen that sort of thing here.  A post is made about the Giants having the worst offensive line, and you get posts about how people are making excuses for Daniel Jones.   People here will cherry-pick facts and spend an inordinate amount of time curating facts about other QBs just to criticize or put Daniel Jones down.  Hell, we have even seen posts mocking his facial expression or posts about bleaching one's eyes because you read DJ will be the starting QB.

I have seen game threads that were filled with "Jones' throw was poor," "Jones held on to the ball too long," and "Jones missed the open man." I have even seen Jones blamed for offensive linemen jumping early.   Then Jones throws a TD and you get crickets or a nice catch (by the receiver Jones throws to) or on occasion a begrudging "good throw" (this is the rare thing).

Jones isn't the only target.  People who don't share the strong negative views on Jones are accused of "making excuses" if they dare to consider the terrible situation Jones has dealt with since entering the NFL.   I have seen people accuse those people of undergoing mental gymnastics to defend Jones.

Someone mentioned Evan Neal.   Evan Neal, by any objective standard, has been far worse (considering his draft position) than Daniel Jones, but it's rare to see people putting the man down.  Most are still hoping he will do better, or they have given up on him, but he isn't injected into every conversation.  People are not scouring the league to find other OTs to compare Neal to so they can show how much worse Neal is in comparison.  All of that is a unique situation of Daniel Jones.

So, I can understand Carl and Bob's frustration.   It's not like either of them are saying Jones is doing great.  Neither is suggesting that Jones needs to step up his game or even that Jones is the long term answer.  It's just that the amount of time and energy and the frequency DJ's critics put into putting the man down really gets tiring.  The man's performance needs improvement, but he is still the starting QB of the team we root for.   It's sort of hollow to talk about how one "I don't dislike the guy" if all you do at every opportunity is put the man down and work tirelessly to put him in the worst light possible.

Daniel Jones is a good man who works his ass off for the team.  Even if you don't think highly of him, at least give the man the benefit of the doubt and try to be supportive.  I have always said about fan boards that no one will ever fault you for saying positive things about the team (unless that positive is directed at Daniel Jones).  When it comes to criticism, think about cooking with strong spices, a little goes a long way.

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 18, 2024, 07:41:07 AMI think the frustration that Bob and Carl expressed has more to do with how fans go overboard in their criticism of Daniel Jones, rather than their opinion of Daniel Jones.  We have seen that sort of thing here.  A post is made about the Giants having the worst offensive line, and you get posts about how people are making excuses for Daniel Jones.   People here will cherry-pick facts and spend an inordinate amount of time curating facts about other QBs just to criticize or put Daniel Jones down.  Hell, we have even seen posts mocking his facial expression or posts about bleaching one's eyes because you read DJ will be the starting QB.

I have seen game threads that were filled with "Jones' throw was poor," "Jones held on to the ball too long," and "Jones missed the open man." I have even seen Jones blamed for offensive linemen jumping early.   Then Jones throws a TD and you get crickets or a nice catch (by the receiver Jones throws to) or on occasion a begrudging "good throw" (this is the rare thing).

Jones isn't the only target.  People who don't share the strong negative views on Jones are accused of "making excuses" if they dare to consider the terrible situation Jones has dealt with since entering the NFL.   I have seen people accuse those people of undergoing mental gymnastics to defend Jones.

Someone mentioned Evan Neal.   Evan Neal, by any objective standard, has been far worse (considering his draft position) than Daniel Jones, but it's rare to see people putting the man down.  Most are still hoping he will do better, or they have given up on him, but he isn't injected into every conversation.  People are not scouring the league to find other OTs to compare Neal to so they can show how much worse Neal is in comparison.  All of that is a unique situation of Daniel Jones.

So, I can understand Carl and Bob's frustration.   It's not like either of them are saying Jones is doing great.  Neither is suggesting that Jones needs to step up his game or even that Jones is the long term answer.  It's just that the amount of time and energy and the frequency DJ's critics put into putting the man down really gets tiring.  The man's performance needs improvement, but he is still the starting QB of the team we root for.   It's sort of hollow to talk about how one "I don't dislike the guy" if all you do at every opportunity is put the man down and work tirelessly to put him in the worst light possible.

Daniel Jones is a good man who works his ass off for the team.  Even if you don't think highly of him, at least give the man the benefit of the doubt and try to be supportive.  I have always said about fan boards that no one will ever fault you for saying positive things about the team (unless that positive is directed at Daniel Jones).  When it comes to criticism, think about cooking with strong spices, a little goes a long way.

Works both ways, MG. The defenders and the detractors. That is why it has remained a hot topic. Banks can call out the defenders as easily as the detractors. Both are guilty here but he chooses the latter group to call goofy.

I guess we should be careful not to cheer too much for Daniel Jones lest our enthusiasm be perceived as a "goofy"overreaction.

This is just the never ending struggle of Papa and Banks to find something to talk about in May.

Carl Banks has a voice for the Giants. I do not. However I know I have been wrong many times on this board even when I thought I was communicating accurate facts. Trying to analyze the value of someone else's opinion and its accuracy is a fool's game, and Carl is the fool. Stick to football Carl and next time someone says something you think is "goofy", give your reaction to the mirror first. I think you will find how it reflects on you may not be what you expected. 

Quote from: katkavage on May 18, 2024, 08:04:28 AMWorks both ways, MG. The defenders and the detractors. That is why it has remained a hot topic. Banks can call out the defenders as easily as the detractors. Both are guilty here but he chooses the latter group to call goofy.

That's the thing, Kat, you really can't.   When you tally up the posts, there are far more negative posts than positive posts.  If you really study the dynamics, much of what could be perceived as positive post about Jones are usually posts responding to criticism.   Hell, even my mini-rant was nuanced.  I didn't say it was wrong to have a negative view (which stands in stark contrast to the accusations of "making excuses").  I didn't even say that Jones will prove to be a franchise QB (which, again, stands in stark contrast to critics who claim Jones will never be a franchise QB). 

The "both sides do it" argument is just a way to defend that which really can't be defended, in my opinion.

I readily admit to being a fan who believes in DJ. But I avoid threads that have turned into DJ bashing and simply move on. If I point out that his teammates believe in him, or that the coaches have more insight than me, I get a few hundred word diatribe in response from those who feel the need to convince me to share their opinion. And those people will carry out their oft-repeated invective until fingers are numb from typing. So, as a believer in DJ, I almost always keep away from the discussions. The gentlemen's approach to "let's just agree to disagree" is used in most areas, but certainly not when it comes to DJ. The "haters" feel obligated to proselytize me to their belief. I am a staunch independent in everything when it comes to living my life. I do not join bandwagons to feel comfortable in my own skin. If people don't like me or don't share my opinion, oh well...qué será, será. In the immortal words of Popeye, "I yam what I yam"...a believer in Daniel Jones

So I avoid the subject for sanity's sake

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 18, 2024, 08:29:53 AMThat's the thing, Kat, you really can't.   When you tally up the posts, there are far more negative posts than positive posts.  If you really study the dynamics, much of what could be perceived as positive post about Jones are usually posts responding to criticism.   Hell, even my mini-rant was nuanced.  I didn't say it was wrong to have a negative view (which stands in stark contrast to the accusations of "making excuses").  I didn't even say that Jones will prove to be a franchise QB (which, again, stands in stark contrast to critics who claim Jones will never be a franchise QB). 

The "both sides do it" argument is just a way to defend that which really can't be defended, in my opinion.

That's your perspective,MG. Mine is different. The detractors knock DJ to the extreme, the defenders gloss over or make countless excuses. Both are wrong. There is a middle ground. You just don't choose to acknowledge it.

We didn't get Drake. I agree he had top 5 QB in the NFL upside. Short of that Giants felt no QB available had greater upside than Daniel Jones. I don't blame them for feeling that way.

We now all need to root as one for DJ to succeed with the better supporting cast around him.

This year is exciting to me because I see all the risky measures NYG took in helping DJ: From bad OL coach after bad OL coach, too much youth on the OL, one bad receiving acquisition after another (Toney, Golladay, Rudolph, Waller etc.) finally being addressed with much higher-probability and well thought out additions.

- Carmen Bracillo comes in with a resume that clearly rivals any OL coach we have had here since Pat Flaherty. AN OL coach is one of the most important coaches on a staff after HC/OC/DC.

-Nabers is probably the most sure-fire addition in the receiving corps NYG has made since probably OBJ. Yes he is a rookie, but he is 100% a blue-chip prospect. The kind of player that bucks the long learning curve and can become a WR1 in year 1 or close to it.

-Runyan is according to many advanced analytics one of the top pass protecting guards in the NFL. This is a low key great signing considering some other guys at OG got closer to 20M a year vs 10 M a year. We also added 4 additional veteran options for a total of 5 OL added this offseason. They are not joking around here anymore. No rookies will be starting on the OL this year and only 1 2nd year player in JMS who is supposedly super smart and under Bracillo has a chance for big improvement this year.

-One of those other 4, Eluemenor provides a quality player that Bricillo knows and can play either RG or RT depending on Evan Neal's development.

As a true blue fan through and through I would love nothing more than to see this year become DJ's redemption tour where he just lights it up with all these better , more well thought out options around him. The mass media will be in an absolute tizzy searching for answers on why he looks so good. While some of us here will know the obvious answer, he finally got a competent support system around him from better coaches to better players.