Big Blue Huddle

With tight end Darren Waller expected to retire after just one miserable season with the Giants, general manager Joe Schoen's trade for him last offseason now looks especially brutal.

It will go down as a massive, Dave Gettleman-style failure, barring shocking developments (Waller returning in 2024 and then actually playing well).

https://www.nj.com/giants/2024/06/why-giants-darren-waller-trade-will-go-down-as-such-a-massive-failure.html

I think to properly assess, it's worth noting the 10 players drafted at 100 and onward to get a better sense of what the Giants passed on


3×   100   Las Vegas Raiders   Tre Tucker    WR   Cincinnati   
3×   101   San Francisco 49ers   Cameron Latu    TE   Alabama   SEC
3×   102   Minnesota Vikings   Mekhi Blackmon    CB   USC   Pac-12   
4   103   New Orleans Saints   Nick Saldiveri    OT   Old Dominion   Sun Belt
4   104   Las Vegas Raiders   Jakorian Bennett    CB   Maryland   Big Ten   
4   105   Philadelphia Eagles   Kelee Ringo    CB   Georgia   SEC
4   106   Indianapolis Colts   Blake Freeland    OT   BYU   Ind. (FBS)   
4   107   New England Patriots   Jake Andrews    C   Troy   Sun Belt
4   108   Seattle Seahawks   Anthony Bradford    OG   LSU   SEC
4   109   Houston Texans   Dylan Horton    DE   TCU   Big 12   

It's a brutal trade. I don't think anyone thought he'd get back to his most productive years but I think everyone thought he'd contribute for more than one season.

In terms of the players drafted, I'm more interested in how the pick might have been packaged for other picks.

Whichever way you slice it, this was a horrible trade for the Giants.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on June 04, 2024, 08:49:44 AMIt's a brutal trade. I don't think anyone thought he'd get back to his most productive years but I think everyone thought he'd contribute for more than one season.

In terms of the players drafted, I'm more interested in how the pick might have been packaged for other picks.

Whichever way you slice it, this was a horrible trade for the Giants.

I suspect most will agree to some degree with your assessment.   One thing I try to do in life is to figure out why a mistake happened (rather than just acknowledge it). I think in the case of the Giants, they had two factors that contributed.  First, they overestimated the talent level on the team.  The team didn't have the sort of talent that teams that make it to round 2 of the playoffs usually possess.  Second, the trade was based more on hope than a plan.  By that, I mean they hoped that Waller would stay healthy even though recent history and age suggested that was unlikely and they hoped he still had a passion for the game, despite rumors his passion had turned to music.

I was hoping for an inspired athlete looking to get g by back to form, as best he could.

That wasn't the case.

Started with sounds bites and lip service, nagging hamstrings .


Some real nice play mixed in with some real lackluster; usually means focus issues. A consistent issue for Waller.

Giants let go of Engram for being a constant disappointment and he becomes a stud in Jacksonville, only to pay Waller a kings ransom for little to nothing

At least the contract wasn't a killer with a quick out. As it turned out was there any way to expect he would get a head slamming divorce and fall apart emotionally? We were all concerned about his injury history. Schoen was looking to fill a void at the TE position to support DJ. He was a couple of years off of being one of the best in the league. Imo, it's not as bad as everyone is making it out to be. His legacy will ride on the coattails of Daniel Jones.

As I examine people who made personnel decisions in my companies, one thing i notice with some of them is their weakness in seeing only a positive image of a person rather than their actual image or other attributes that are not positive.  I wonder if Joe Schoen suffers from that.

Quote from: Ed Vette on June 04, 2024, 09:01:17 AMAt least the contract wasn't a killer with a quick out. As it turned out was there any way to expect he would get a head slamming divorce and fall apart emotionally? We were all concerned about his injury history. Schoen was looking to fill a void at the TE position to support DJ. He was a couple of years off of being one of the best in the league. Imo, it's not as bad as everyone is making it out to be. His legacy will ride on the coattails of Daniel Jones.

Ed,

When the Raiders traded away Waller, Mike Lombardi's son was the OC. On his podcast, Lombardi hinted that Waller's music career might be more important to him than his football career.

I didn't hate it at the time. The Giants took a shot on a guy who was one of the best tight ends in the league only a couple years earlier. But a third round pick, even one toward the end of the round, isn't nothing and Waller had the very obvious injury history and hadn't played more than 11 games in 3 years. Just another example of how the Giants got caught off guard by the success of the 2022 season.

Like all things in life, it was a risk. Certainly not a back-breaker, but definitely not insignificant as far as the short term is concerned.

At the end of the day, Schoen gambled and ended up with a one-year, 50-reception, 500-yard, one-TD injured tight end for what was essentially a third round comp pick (#100, to be exact, from the 2023 draft). So, in essence, Waller was a high fourth-round cost.

What is the % of players drafted as either third round comps, or top handful fourth round picks, who have gone on to start as a rookie on opening day and last more than a year as a starter? That's what Waller was paid to be for the Giants. Based on that criteria, there are very few rookies at/around pick #100 that will deliver. So, in one respect, it's an 🍎 vs. 🍊 discussion point, since the Giants wanted immediate production and the 100th pick wasn't going to deliver that. Yet, in the end, what was lost was that pick. If you believe Schoen needs to be run out of town because of it, let man here who has never made a mistake at work cast the first stone.

He took a risk. We all knew it was a risk. We all knew the player's hamstring issues, but were lured in by his accomplishments. He showed some flash of his past until the injuries came back, and that was that.

He's likely retiring and moving on, and so are the Giants. It's pretty much done. Let's move on!

Peace!

I think the one other issue to consider is the salary cap cost.  If you get a solid backup or starter with the 100th overall pick, you are not even going to be paying that player a million per season for the life of the 4 year deal.  If Waller retires the it's going to cost the Giants in excesses of $10 million for his single year of service. That was a $4,723,750 cap hit last year, plus the $7.4 million of last year's salary that was converted into a roster bonus (to save cap space last season)

Why do we keep getting guys with interest in music careers?  Waller and Kadarius come to mind.  They usually seem uninterested in football and are distractions.

I think any time you trade for a player with an injury history like Waller had, it's a bad trade.
They knew full well what they were getting but they went ahead and did it anyway.

Quote from: WheresDayne on June 04, 2024, 10:15:39 AMWhy do we keep getting guys with interest in music careers?  Waller and Kadarius come to mind.  They usually seem uninterested in football and are distractions.

I can remember Mitch Petrus

2010 / Round: 5 / Pick: 147

He seemed more interested in his music career as well

The Waller trade is likely to go down as bad, but it was not crippling.  The team had a big hole at TE and needed playmakers.  Yes he had an injury history and we all knew it and hoped for the best. 

Surplus 3rd round pick from the Kadarius Toney dump turned into a lottery ticket at TE meant to snowball momentum from 2022 for Jones. Didn't work out. This won't define Schoen's tenure nearly as much as decisions around the QB and the top of the 2022 draft.