Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on June 04, 2024, 11:38:42 AMSurplus 3rd round pick from the Kadarius Toney dump turned into a lottery ticket at TE meant to snowball momentum from 2022 for Jones. Didn't work out. This won't define Schoen's tenure nearly as much as decisions around the QB and the top of the 2022 draft.

Considering the Giants roster, I don't think I would say that Schoen has had any "surplus" draft picks

Oh this was not anywhere near a Gettleman level disaster.  Gettleman trades you knew the second they happened it was idiotic.  This trade at the time seemed like a great move.  Waller was one of the most skilled TE's in the league. The Giants had decided to run it back with Jones which meant getting him as much high end talent as possible to try and mask the deficiencies as best they could and the cost was a late 3rd round pick. 

It was a risk, just like any trade is, but it was a risk worth taking in my opinion.  Waller's injury history was the only reason the cost wasn't a late 1st early 2nd round pick.  I'm not sure anybody could plan for a marriage to fall apart and for him to then pretend to be a good musician while releasing one of the worst songs your ears will ever hear.

Of course if they could go back in time they don't do the trade again.  By definition that makes it a bad deal.  But to bring this into Gettleman territory is a little bit of recency bias I think.  It's not THAT bad.

there is not doubt he has talent but

A- is his heart in it
B- was he just here to pick up his weekly checks?

We will somehow soldier on without him

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 04, 2024, 11:42:00 AMConsidering the Giants roster, I don't think I would say that Schoen has had any "surplus" draft picks

Maybe my wording was too lose. They had a natural 3rd round pick, which they retained. The Waller pick was a compensatory 3rd at pick 100, far closer to being a top-choice 4th than a 3rd. Trade value chart shows it as worth just 100 points--the Giants' natural 3.21 pick was worth 45% more, by comparison. I'm okay with gambling that type of limited value on a potential gamechanger, especially when you've already made a pick in that round. Indeed, the gripe after 2022 was that Jones had no receiving playmakers... the Giants made a potential one that didn't work out. I'm okay with it.

I also don't know what the alternative would have been had the Giants retained the pick. Giants drafted Eric Gray with their next pick. None of the other RBs drafted between 100 and then appear to be world-beaters.

The Giants have been jinxed with 3rd round picks as long as I can remember and now even when they trade it away. Crossing my fingers on Hyatt and hoping Ezeudu and Flott don't flop.

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 04, 2024, 11:42:00 AMConsidering the Giants roster, I don't think I would say that Schoen has had any "surplus" draft picks

but he will have a "surplus" 11.6 mill once he retires 

Quote from: Ed Vette on June 04, 2024, 03:25:54 PMThe Giants have been jinxed with 3rd round picks as long as I can remember and now even when they trade it away. Crossing my fingers on Hyatt and hoping Ezeudu and Flott don't flop.

I would say BJ Hill was the last successful 3rd round pick.  Lots of failed picks, as you said.  The next true success is 2008 Mario Manningham

There is no way anyone could predict he would retire. Him on the field easily value that of a 3rd round pick.

I'm sorry but Schoen can't be these guys daddy and talk them into playing. It is not on him. He took a swing that was universally praised and I'd rather him keep taking swings than to be conservative and do nothing.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 04, 2024, 05:58:28 PMThere is no way anyone could predict he would retire. Him on the field easily value that of a 3rd round pick.

I'm sorry but Schoen can't be these guys daddy and talk them into playing. It is not on him. He took a swing that was universally praised and I'd rather him keep taking swings than to be conservative and do nothing.

This is a really good point. A year ago, we had no way of knowing his personal life or motivation would be an issue. We were just rolling the dice on a talented player with a checkered medical past.

There are many similar trades that can be made to look much worse in hindsight than anyone believed at the time.

If I were a minor beat writer or self-proclaimed analyst trying to sound smarter and more informed than I really was, I'd probably jump all over it too.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 04, 2024, 05:58:28 PMThere is no way anyone could predict he would retire. Him on the field easily value that of a 3rd round pick.

I'm sorry but Schoen can't be these guys daddy and talk them into playing. It is not on him. He took a swing that was universally praised and I'd rather him keep taking swings than to be conservative and do nothing.

Not universally praised.  Some of us didn't like the move at all.  Maybe no one could have predicted he'd retire but it was pretty easy to predict that he would have injury issues and that it would be unlikely that he could return to a level of production he hadn't seen.  All of the positive comments were hedged with "if he can stay on the field", and "if he could return to his 2020 form". And at age 32 he wasn't going to be a significant part in the rebuilt Giants.

And as being easily the value of a 3rd round pick, only if we ignore the fact that they've already paid him more than the total amount Bellinger and Johnson will receive over all 4 years of their rookie contracts.

Look, I like Schoen, but this was a foreseeably bad signing.  It was a swing and a miss on a ball way out of the strike zone.  Doing something rather than nothing is frequently the bad excuse for having done a bad something.

It was an attempt (with risk) to get our newly signed franchise QB a weapon in order to better evaluate him during years 1 & 2...

It was risky BUT I liked it at the time...

Then DJ got injured and it was all irrelevant from there...

Now they got him Nabers...

I (and I think many) liked the trade at the time...

Now let's hope our rookie and Bellinger do well

He officially retired.

Quote from: Ed Vette on June 09, 2024, 04:22:35 PMHe officially retired.

Yup.

https://x.com/RapSheet/status/1799889071294030180

https://x.com/JordanRaanan/status/1799900754007748743

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on June 09, 2024, 04:29:44 PMYup.

https://x.com/RapSheet/status/1799889071294030180

https://x.com/JordanRaanan/status/1799900754007748743

Thank you for the update. I wish him well also. Now, let's move on!!!

Peace!

I expected so much more from this guy. Major disappointment