Big Blue Huddle

https://gmenhq.com/posts/another-former-new-york-giants-ol-turning-heads-elsewhere-sick-joke-01j0bq6ks165

Ben Bredeson is turning heads at Tampas Camp, he is standing out to all the right people.

Hernandez goes away and does well
Feliciano goes away and does well
Bredeson goes away and does well

Multiple of our UDFA Olinemen leave team and are starting and playing well for other teams.

The only lineman in recent time that left the Giants and played badly was Gates, besides that every lineman that has left got leaps and bounds better??

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 15, 2024, 10:15:23 AMhttps://gmenhq.com/posts/another-former-new-york-giants-ol-turning-heads-elsewhere-sick-joke-01j0bq6ks165

Ben Bredeson is turning heads at Tampas Camp, he is standing out to all the right people.

Hernandez goes away and does well
Feliciano goes away and does well
Bredeson goes away and does well

Multiple of our UDFA Olinemen leave team and are starting and playing well for other teams.

The only lineman in recent time that left the Giants and played badly was Gates, besides that every lineman that has left got leaps and bounds better??

This suggests a mismatch of some sort and not a talent issue with so many leaving and being better.  Scheme vs player skills etc.

Hopefully, this WAS a problem.   The Giants' future hinges on the O-line issues being mostly due to poor coaching.

It's also at least in part an indictment of Bobby Johnson and his inability to get the most out of the talent he had to work with.

Let's hope we got it right with Bricillo.


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Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 15, 2024, 10:15:23 AMhttps://gmenhq.com/posts/another-former-new-york-giants-ol-turning-heads-elsewhere-sick-joke-01j0bq6ks165

Ben Bredeson is turning heads at Tampas Camp, he is standing out to all the right people.

Hernandez goes away and does well
Feliciano goes away and does well
Bredeson goes away and does well

Multiple of our UDFA Olinemen leave team and are starting and playing well for other teams.

The only lineman in recent time that left the Giants and played badly was Gates, besides that every lineman that has left got leaps and bounds better??

Let's hope it was all the coaching's fault and no other reason.

Because if it's the other reason, then the problem won't go away this year.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on June 15, 2024, 10:55:16 AMLet's hope it was all the coaching's fault and no other reason.

Because if it's the other reason, then the problem won't go away this year.

Just curious, what do you mean by the other reason?

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 15, 2024, 10:15:23 AMhttps://gmenhq.com/posts/another-former-new-york-giants-ol-turning-heads-elsewhere-sick-joke-01j0bq6ks165

Ben Bredeson is turning heads at Tampas Camp, he is standing out to all the right people.

Hernandez goes away and does well
Feliciano goes away and does well
Bredeson goes away and does well

Multiple of our UDFA Olinemen leave team and are starting and playing well for other teams.

The only lineman in recent time that left the Giants and played badly was Gates, besides that every lineman that has left got leaps and bounds better??

The "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot" question probably should be analyzed a little deeper. "The lineman play poorly in New York but thrive elsewhere ... why is that" is the question. But have we taken the time to deep-dive and analyze their skillsets, analyze what they were asked to do in New York, compare and/or contrast that to what they are doing with their current team, and what is that actually revealing in the grand scheme of things apart from the usual "blame this, blame that" game. Now that would take this discussion to the next level, in my humble opinion.

I don't have the answers but would love to see this discussion go the route as I described above. I'm learning as I go from many of you with the intricate knowledge base of a lineman's role, both individually and collectively.

What do you think?

Peace!

I saw this quote from John Harbaugh about the massive OT Daniel Faalele on his team who is like 6'9" 375 pounds:

"He's got great feet, and the ability to sustain a block. The ability to sustain a block, whether it's run or pass, zone or gap, or man or drive block, is really the bottom line."

Doesn't that quote sum up perfectly the fundamental nature of playing anywhere on OL.  I am not sure any of the Giants OL do that well aside AT.

You also have to remember
4 good lineman usually cover the flaws of a not so good lineman
4 not so good lineman gets exposed all the time

Since 2016 this team is on its 5th HC, 6th OL coach and 3rd GM.  That's a lot of scheme, preferred technique and talent evaluation differences. 

No doubt that is at least part of the issue.

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 15, 2024, 10:31:26 AMHopefully, this WAS a problem.   The Giants' future hinges on the O-line issues being mostly due to poor coaching.

Blaming the Oline coaching is convenient no doubt.

BUT

To me it really rests at the top with another rookie HC.  You can not tell me that with all his worldly football knowledge he can not see when some things are amiss on his roster, like possibly incorrect usage of personnel. Especially in an area that has been our #1 problem and brings the rest of the offense to a grinding halt way too much.

Until we get this Oline thing right we ain't going nowhere.....again.   And how do you properly assess our QB talent while this thorn stays stuck in our body ?? 

On the bright side, apparently our GM can assess free agent Oline  talent with some degree of success.  Too bad it ultimately does not lead to OUR success.

You forgot to add Kevin Zietler. Starting Guard for the top rated Detroit Lions Line

we could put together an All Star lineup from the guys who have left for one reason or another

I would bring in David Diehl as an advisor to the Oline room and Daboll.  The guy is very very knowledgable

Quote from: Giant Obsession on June 16, 2024, 10:15:09 AMOn the bright side, apparently our GM can assess free agent Oline  talent with some degree of success.  Too bad it ultimately does not lead to OUR success.

Quote from: Giant Obsession on June 16, 2024, 10:15:09 AMBlaming the Oline coaching is convenient no doubt.

BUT

To me it really rests at the top with another rookie HC.  You can not tell me that with all his worldly football knowledge he can not see when some things are amiss on his roster, like possibly incorrect usage of personnel. Especially in an area that has been our #1 problem and brings the rest of the offense to a grinding halt way too much.

Until we get this Oline thing right we ain't going nowhere.....again.   And how do you properly assess our QB talent while this thorn stays stuck in our body ?? 

On the bright side, apparently our GM can assess free agent Oline  talent with some degree of success.  Too bad it ultimately does not lead to OUR success.

Mike,

This is why I hope it was all in the coaching.  The offensive line has been terrible for over a decade.  The line (especially in the early part of the season) was beyond terrible last year despite quite the Giants investing heavy amounts of draft capital into the position.  Maybe the coaching turns things around, but until proven otherwise, there will be a concern that the Giants wasted all that draft capital in 2022 and 2023 by drafting the wrong players.

It might have something to do with coaching, but it's just as likely related to having better talent on either side, and/or at more comfortable position. In any case, does it really matter going forward unless, of course, we are habitual fault-finders.

Cheers!

Quote from: Painter on June 16, 2024, 10:59:24 AMIt might have something to do with coaching, but it's just as likely related to having better talent on either side, and/or at more comfortable position. In any case, does it really matter going forward unless, of course, we are habitual fault-finders.

Cheers!

I would suggest it only really matters in terms of expectations.  If coaching was the primary issue, the hiring of new coaches could result in significant improvements in this year's O-line.  If the coaching wasn't as bad as the firings suggest, then it's possible we will not see all that much improvement from adding 1 or 2 serviceable vets and a few more JAG level vets