Big Blue Huddle

I think the OP has pointed out something that just can't be coincidental.  This should be investigated in depth as KART has suggested.

Yes, this may be a problem.

However, the spate of 'So and So Is Turning Heads In Camp' stories amount to only one thing:

Clickbait.

Quote from: Symphony Steve on June 16, 2024, 11:47:15 AMYes, this may be a problem.

However, the spate of 'So and So Is Turning Heads In Camp' stories amount to only one thing:

Clickbait.

It's beyond clickbait at this point. It would be one thing if it was one guy, but 5+ guys that got pushed out of new York for being bad, that are now thriving is a pattern.

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 16, 2024, 10:44:24 AMMike,

This is why I hope it was all in the coaching.  The offensive line has been terrible for over a decade.  The line (especially in the early part of the season) was beyond terrible last year despite quite the Giants investing heavy amounts of draft capital into the position.  Maybe the coaching turns things around, but until proven otherwise, there will be a concern that the Giants wasted all that draft capital in 2022 and 2023 by drafting the wrong players.

Rich,

Believe it or not I hope you are right about the OL coaching change making a difference.  For us hopefully a huge difference.

Let us not forget we also have a new ST coach AND DC.  Both of those departments could use an upgrade in performance.  PLUS we have a new play caller do we not.  And just what in the heck are they keeping Kafka around for anyway ??

Ever since Daboll kicked away TWO wins last year combined with the horror of opening night at home my view of this team has gotten ultra critical and microscopic regarding this HC.  And let me not mention something that can NEVER in my world be explained away....the benching of DeVito when we knew Tyrod would be leaving.  Sure would have been nice to see what the kid has in a longer and larger sample size.  That decision was just plain stupid, and that is not a word I ever toss around as it is abhorrent to me personally.

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 16, 2024, 10:44:24 AMMike,

This is why I hope it was all in the coaching.  The offensive line has been terrible for over a decade.  The line (especially in the early part of the season) was beyond terrible last year despite quite the Giants investing heavy amounts of draft capital into the position.  Maybe the coaching turns things around, but until proven otherwise, there will be a concern that the Giants wasted all that draft capital in 2022 and 2023 by drafting the wrong players.

If its not the coaching then the question becomes WHY do so many of our cast-offs become solid players once they leave.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on June 16, 2024, 08:47:31 AMSince 2016 this team is on its 5th HC, 6th OL coach and 3rd GM.  That's a lot of scheme, preferred technique and talent evaluation differences. 

No doubt that is at least part of the issue.

For what it's worth, the same SVP of Player Personnel.

Lets not throw Bredeson in that group yet. He looked great in camp when he got here too and beat out Ezuedu for the job. Then he got moved around a lot after players were hurt.

As to the question with why players may succeed elsewhere rather than here, I would start with the fact that for a long, long time - going back to the Manning days at QB - Offensive Linemen were more likely to leave after they had been developed by the Giants than they were to stay. The front office also seemed to be fine with that since most of these guys were allowed to part in Free Agency. Resigning of linemen the Giants drafted or traded for has been rare. Losing will do that and makes it easy for both sides to justify the move.

Quote from: Giant Obsession on June 16, 2024, 10:15:09 AMBlaming the Oline coaching is convenient no doubt.

BUT

To me it really rests at the top with another rookie HC.  You can not tell me that with all his worldly football knowledge he can not see when some things are amiss on his roster, like possibly incorrect usage of personnel. Especially in an area that has been our #1 problem and brings the rest of the offense to a grinding halt way too much.

Until we get this Oline thing right we ain't going nowhere.....again.   And how do you properly assess our QB talent while this thorn stays stuck in our body ?? 

On the bright side, apparently our GM can assess free agent Oline  talent with some degree of success.  Too bad it ultimately does not lead to OUR success.

I think he demonstrated that very thing you mentioned. He fired his good friend in Bobby Johnson, he pushed Wink to play more zone than attacking man and it resulted in more turnovers later in the season, and we have a new ST coach. To me, he does see the deficiencies in some areas and is looking to correct/improve them. He's even more involved in calling plays, if not outright taking it over from Kafka. Regardless of how he handled the Wink situation, that side of the problem is gone.

Now the only question is how will these new faces on the coaching staff improve the product on the field.

Stay tuned.

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 16, 2024, 11:08:21 AMI would suggest it only really matters in terms of expectations.  If coaching was the primary issue, the hiring of new coaches could result in significant improvements in this year's O-line.  If the coaching wasn't as bad as the firings suggest, then it's possible we will not see all that much improvement from adding 1 or 2 serviceable vets and a few more JAG level vets

I don't disagree per se, but when we begin and end with an "if", I do feel an old Dandy Don vibe- you know the one. Speaking of which, my favorite "Meredith" insight will always be, I ain't the man I used to be but then I never was.

Cheers!

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 15, 2024, 10:15:23 AMhttps://gmenhq.com/posts/another-former-new-york-giants-ol-turning-heads-elsewhere-sick-joke-01j0bq6ks165

Ben Bredeson is turning heads at Tampas Camp, he is standing out to all the right people.

Hernandez goes away and does well
Feliciano goes away and does well
Bredeson goes away and does well

Multiple of our UDFA Olinemen leave team and are starting and playing well for other teams.

The only lineman in recent time that left the Giants and played badly was Gates, besides that every lineman that has left got leaps and bounds better??

While this is all 100% true, let us not forget that the problems began when Pat Flaherty was still coaching the offensive line. He was a proven commodity.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 15, 2024, 10:15:23 AMhttps://gmenhq.com/posts/another-former-new-york-giants-ol-turning-heads-elsewhere-sick-joke-01j0bq6ks165

Ben Bredeson is turning heads at Tampas Camp, he is standing out to all the right people.

Hernandez goes away and does well
Feliciano goes away and does well
Bredeson goes away and does well

Multiple of our UDFA Olinemen leave team and are starting and playing well for other teams.

The only lineman in recent time that left the Giants and played badly was Gates, besides that every lineman that has left got leaps and bounds better??

I wouldn't put any stock in coverage of OTAs. Every team site puts a positive spin on every player. The Washington sites tell us that every player is "turning heads" and would lead you to believe the team is going to the Super Bowl.

Would suggest we wait for the season to start before passing judgement on Bredeson or any player.


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This entire thread is based on a faulty premise; specifically, that players are playing better after leaving the Giants

Will Hernandez best season was actually 2018; if you recall, we were all high on his future. Last year, he allowed 4 sacks and accumulated a very average 66 PFF rating.  I wouldn't classify that as 'good.'  For whatever reason, Hernandez played poorly when Eli was replaced. Regardless, he played equally well with our Giants in 2018. 

In 2023, Feliciano didn't win the starting job and was put into action due to injury.  He only started 7 games and accumulated less than 500 snaps. His 2022 season with the Giants occurred after back-to-back seasons derailed by significant injuries. So, is it all that surprising he failed to play well?  He has a very turbulent 9 year career, plagued with injuries and up-and-down play.  He played about a 1/3 of a season; I wouldn't derive too much from a small sample size. 

Breadson - it's not even preseason. Who cares what happens in June...



 

How is he "impressing" anyone in June?

Quote from: Giant Obsession on June 16, 2024, 01:52:48 PMRich,

Believe it or not I hope you are right about the OL coaching change making a difference.  For us hopefully a huge difference.

Let us not forget we also have a new ST coach AND DC.  Both of those departments could use an upgrade in performance.  PLUS we have a new play caller do we not.  And just what in the heck are they keeping Kafka around for anyway ??

Ever since Daboll kicked away TWO wins last year combined with the horror of opening night at home my view of this team has gotten ultra critical and microscopic regarding this HC.  And let me not mention something that can NEVER in my world be explained away....the benching of DeVito when we knew Tyrod would be leaving.  Sure would have been nice to see what the kid has in a longer and larger sample size.  That decision was just plain stupid, and that is not a word I ever toss around as it is abhorrent to me personally.

Apparently, the coaching staff was not happy with DeVito spending more time on the autograph circuit than the QB film room. Specifically, the preparation for the Saints multi-defenses was lacking for DeVito. When it was apparent he was not prepared for those switching defenses, he was benched and a better prepared Taylor took his place.

The other issue is that the coaching staff wants to win football games not develop young players. They felt Taylor gave them the best chance to win.


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Quote from: TONKA56 on June 18, 2024, 12:13:55 PMWhile this is all 100% true, let us not forget that the problems began when Pat Flaherty was still coaching the offensive line. He was a proven commodity.

Wasnt a big part of why he was let go was because he spoke out about some of the "talent" the brass was bringing in?  Guys like Flowers for example.