Big Blue Huddle

We have a first round draft pick
A second round draft pick
J Hyatt  was going in the second round if JMS wasnt there
There is no reason this trio.should.not be amazing
If they arent
Either we dont know how to use them
Our coaches are bad
Our scouts are bad
OUR line and QB play are so bad nothing can help them

Because draft status equals unit success? If that was true, why is our OLine so bad?  You're also viewing our roster in a vacuum.  Presently, the Giants may have the 4th best WR corps in the division; perhaps they could be better than Wash,, but clearly Dal and Phili have more established talent and bonafide APs in Brown and Lamb. For more context, here's a list of ten teams that have multiple AP, PBs, and/or 1K/yr WRs:

Texans
Bears
Dolphins
Bengals.
49ers
Eagles
Buccaneers
Seahawks
Vikings
Rams

The teams above have amazing or very good WR corps. At best, you could classify our Giants as having the potential to be good, to above average. I haven't seen a shred of evidence to suggest they're among the NFLs best (ie amazing). Honestly, some fans are treating Hyatt as an AP based on his projected draft status (ie first round value); however, there are good reasons he dropped to the 3rd and failed to make a splash last season.  He needs to be a more complete route runner, and handle press better. In short, I don't project an 'amazing' WR corps; however, they should be improved. How much of an improvement?  We'll have to wait and see. If Nabers becomes CeeDee Lamb, we can revisit this discussion; however, I'm hesitant to make any predictions before he takes an NFL snap.

Quote from: kingm56 on June 19, 2024, 06:00:22 AMBecause draft status equals unit success? If that was true, why is our OLine so bad?  You're also viewing our roster in a vacuum.  Presently, the Giants may have the 4th best WR corps in the division; perhaps they could be better than Wash,, but clearly Dal and Phili have more established talent and bonafide APs in Brown and Lamb. For more context, here's a list of ten teams that have multiple AP, PBs, and/or 1K/yr WRs:

Texans
Bears
Dolphins
Bengals.
49ers
Eagles
Buccaneers
Seahawks
Vikings
Rams

The teams above have amazing or very good WR corps. At best, you could classify our Giants as having the potential to be good, to above average. I haven't seen a shred of evidence to suggest they're among the NFLs best (ie amazing). Honestly, some fans are treating Hyatt as an AP based on his projected draft status (ie first round value); however, there are good reasons he dropped to the 3rd and failed to make a splash last season.  He needs to be a more complete route runner, and handle press better. In short, I don't project an 'amazing' WR corps; however, they should be improved. How much of an improvement?  We'll have to wait and see. If Nabers becomes CeeDee Lamb, we can revisit this discussion; however, I'm hesitant to make any predictions before he takes an NFL snap.

Well said and 100% agree with you.  Way too early to use words like amazing.  Draft status as a barometer of success?  I need another coffee to process that. 

Saw Nabers called out Trevon Diggs as the guy he wants to smoke regularly and Diggs replied that the cowboys have been putting the belt to the Giants for years now.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 19, 2024, 10:39:27 AMSaw Nabers called out Trevon Diggs as the guy he wants to smoke regularly and Diggs replied that the cowboys have been putting the belt to the Giants for years now.

Diggs is coming back from a significant injury; I suspect he won't be the same player for a few weeks.  I like Nabers confidence though; we haven't had that swag in years.

I hope Hodgins makes the 53...he blocks, catches, and gets open, despite not having the speed.

Quote from: kingm56 on June 19, 2024, 06:00:22 AMBecause draft status equals unit success? If that was true, why is our OLine so bad?  You're also viewing our roster in a vacuum.  Presently, the Giants may have the 4th best WR corps in the division; perhaps they could be better than Wash,, but clearly Dal and Phili have more established talent and bonafide APs in Brown and Lamb. For more context, here's a list of ten teams that have multiple AP, PBs, and/or 1K/yr WRs:

Texans
Bears
Dolphins
Bengals.
49ers
Eagles
Buccaneers
Seahawks
Vikings
Rams

The teams above have amazing or very good WR corps. At best, you could classify our Giants as having the potential to be good, to above average. I haven't seen a shred of evidence to suggest they're among the NFLs best (ie amazing). Honestly, some fans are treating Hyatt as an AP based on his projected draft status (ie first round value); however, there are good reasons he dropped to the 3rd and failed to make a splash last season.  He needs to be a more complete route runner, and handle press better. In short, I don't project an 'amazing' WR corps; however, they should be improved. How much of an improvement?  We'll have to wait and see. If Nabers becomes CeeDee Lamb, we can revisit this discussion; however, I'm hesitant to make any predictions before he takes an NFL snap.

I think there is a lot to unpack here.  I agree the O-line illustrates that just throwing draft capital at a position will not ensure success at the position.  I also wouldn't argue that the Giants have had the worst receiving corps in the NFC East for some time.

That all said, I think there is potential for the receivers on the roster to move into the top 10.   Not saying they will, but the talent levels are there.

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 19, 2024, 12:24:32 PMI think there is a lot to unpack here.  I agree the O-line illustrates that just throwing draft capital at a position will not ensure success at the position.  I also wouldn't argue that the Giants have had the worst receiving corps in the NFC East for some time.

That all said, I think there is potential for the receivers on the roster to move into the top 10.   Not saying they will, but the talent levels are there.

I don't see top 10, but they do have the potential to be good.  It all comes down to Nabers.  Can he be as good as CeeDee? If he is, we can talk above top 10. 

Btw, I think Terry M maybe the most underrated wr in the entire NFL.  For 5 years, he's been paired with below average QBs. Yet, all he does is produce 1K+ yard years.

Quote from: kingm56 on June 19, 2024, 12:32:22 PMI don't see top 10, but they do have the potential to be good.  It all comes down to Nabers.  Can he be as good as CeeDee? If he is, we can talk above top 10. 

Btw, I think Terry M maybe the most underrated wr in the entire NFL.  For 5 years, he's been paired with below average QBs. Yet, all he does is produce 1K+ yard years.

There is a lot of smoke around Washington trading for Brandon Aiyuk as him and Daniels are best friends from their time at Arizona St and in a hold out with the 49ers.

It eventually comes down to who's getting the wrs the ball. I think WDR could be elite, and Hyatt eventually could turn into a poor mans Calvin Ridley. Really just hinges on what we have in Nabers and who is getting them the ball.

I just want the young guys to get as many reps as humanly possible this season. I want as many reps of WDR, Nabers, Hyatt, Theo Johnson, and Tyrone Tracey on the field as they can handle. They are the future, so let's see what they have.

Should is the key word in the title of this thread.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 19, 2024, 01:03:49 PMThere is a lot of smoke around Washington trading for Brandon Aiyuk as him and Daniels are best friends from their time at Arizona St and in a hold out with the 49ers.

It eventually comes down to who's getting the wrs the ball. I think WDR could be elite, and Hyatt eventually could turn into a poor mans Calvin Ridley. Really just hinges on what we have in Nabers and who is getting them the ball.

I just want the young guys to get as many reps as humanly possible this season. I want as many reps of WDR, Nabers, Hyatt, Theo Johnson, and Tyrone Tracey on the field as they can handle. They are the future, so let's see what they have.

That's the same group I want to see in the field as well.  Our most athletically and hopefully developed lot.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 19, 2024, 01:03:49 PMIt eventually comes down to who's getting the wrs the ball. I think WDR could be elite, and Hyatt eventually could turn into a poor mans Calvin Ridley. Really just hinges on what we have in Nabers and who is getting them the ball.

Jess, the data doesn't support that narrative; specifically, elite WRs can be productive independent of QB play.  Using Terry McLaurin as an example, he has 5 straight 1,000+ yard/70 catch seasons, despite playing with the following QBs:

* 2019: Case Keenum, Dwayne Haskins, and Colt McCoy
* 2020: Alex Smith, Dwayne Haskins, and Kyle Allen
* 2021: Taylor Heinicke, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Garrett Gilbert
* 2022: Taylor Heinicke, Sam Howell, and Carson Wentz
* 2023: Sam Howell, Jacoby Brissett, and Jake Fromm

That's as bad as it gets; yet, he still produced.  Justin Jefferson is another good example; despite playing with 3rd string QBs, he still produced.  In short, similar to how a QB can be successful without good WRs, the latter can also be successful without the former.  Now, if each is good, they will both benefit. As this relates to WDR, I don't believe it's the QB holding him back; his injuries are probably the primary reason he's yet to shine. 

Let's start with the reasonable expectation that (given they were all very high draft picks) it would be a major disappointment if the Giants can't make the top 1/2 of the league with these guys OVER THE FINAL 10 GAMES OF THE SEASON.  We have one rookie, one 2nd-year guy and a 3rd-year guy who missed most of one season due to injury. I'd be happy with that, given (ALSO) that we still have a questionable QB at the helm. Bob

Quote from: ralphpal1 on June 18, 2024, 11:32:31 PMWe have a first round draft pick
A second round draft pick
J Hyatt  was going in the second round if JMS wasnt there
There is no reason this trio.should.not be amazing
If they arent
Either we dont know how to use them
Our coaches are bad
Our scouts are bad
OUR line and QB play are so bad nothing can help them

Wait, are we talking about their WRs or their OL, as that is true for both.  😉

Quote from: kingm56 on June 19, 2024, 01:44:34 PMJess, the data doesn't support that narrative; specifically, elite WRs can be productive independent of QB play.  Using Terry McLaurin as an example, he has 5 straight 1,000+ yard/70 catch seasons, despite playing with the following QBs:

* 2019: Case Keenum, Dwayne Haskins, and Colt McCoy
* 2020: Alex Smith, Dwayne Haskins, and Kyle Allen
* 2021: Taylor Heinicke, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Garrett Gilbert
* 2022: Taylor Heinicke, Sam Howell, and Carson Wentz
* 2023: Sam Howell, Jacoby Brissett, and Jake Fromm

That's as bad as it gets; yet, he still produced.  Justin Jefferson is another good example; despite playing with 3rd string QBs, he still produced.  In short, similar to how a QB can be successful without good WRs, the latter can also be successful without the former.  Now, if each is good, they will both benefit. As this relates to WDR, I don't believe it's the QB holding him back; his injuries are probably the primary reason he's yet to shine.

I was more referring to the Qb in how they throw downfield. Hyatt becomes a waste if we can't go deep regularly whereas Robinson likely thrives with a qb that throws short a lot etc. The Qb has an affect on how they get the ball and I think that matters for our guys more so than a your typical qb/wr.

Also if you added up those Qbs production you listed for each season it likely mirrors our own production if not better if that says something.

Jefferson did have a career low this past season with the 3rd string qbs but I completely get your point.