Big Blue Huddle

I am really struggling to understand if this team is improving, declining, if we have the right coaching staff in place, right management, etc.

It's one thing to have a position group sub-perform but another to have it bribg down a unit as badly as the Giants OL did last season.  The only equivalent I can think of was when RichRod coached Michigan and he failed to sign a kicker and in one season, Michigan regularly could not kick even extra points.

When there is such a failure it seems like the coach must be assigned more blame for the failure.

What about Schoen?  Seems like a nice, smart, honest guy but does he and his staff see more "promise" in a prospect than is actually there?

Then there's DJ probably the most debated player in Giants history.  From '22-'24 we have him with a so-called "Quarterback Whisperer" yet I do not see an advancement in his development.

I feel lost with this team.  Where are they going?

On good Giant teams, we saw real position group development.  Look at 1986 secondary with rookie Mark Collins, Perry Williams, Kenny Hill and Terry Kinard.  It was a developed unit.  Same with OL of Brad Benson, Billy Ard, Bart Oates, Chris Godfrey and Karl Nelson.  Did we have just better position group coaches in developing players and integrating them into an effective scheme?

interesting issue...some factors have changed...free agency chaos; longer season [injuries, fatigue?], and changes in the college game [less pro-ready, transfers galore/different systems, many not like the pros], and the media / social media scrutiny all may have an impact on players, gm's and players.

Quote from: President Rick on June 20, 2024, 09:11:47 AMinteresting issue...some factors have changed...free agency chaos; longer season [injuries, fatigue?], and changes in the college game [less pro-ready, transfers galore/different systems, many not like the pros], and the media / social media scrutiny all may have an impact on players, gm's and players.

You brought up a lot of great points.  Affects all teams.  Why do the Rams seem to be ahead of the curve and the Giants behind it.  Look at their RB position and how they transitioned from great RBs to broken down then quickly found Kyren Williams.

Giants can't seem to do that.  Stuck in mud.

I can't say that it reminds me of some other Giants team in particular.

At this still early stage, that is before camp and any sort of preseason play comparisons, I can only hope that it reminds me of the one which finished 4-3 after a horrendous 2-8 start last year, and better yet the one which won a playoffs game, with its currently starting QB, the year before.

Cheers!

1996. A 3rd year coach coming off a down year after making the playoffs in his first season. A 1st round qb from Duke still trying to make it. High Edge and WR picks (Strahan and Lewis) expected to break out (like Thibs, Wan'Dale and Hyatt). An unproven Oline.  Many parallels. Let's hope 2024 turns out better!

Quote from: TheBeef on June 20, 2024, 10:56:50 AM1996. A 3rd year coach coming off a down year after making the playoffs in his first season. A 1st round qb from Duke still trying to make it. High Edge and WR picks (Strahan and Lewis) expected to break out (like Thibs, Wan'Dale and Hyatt). An unproven Oline.  Many parallels. Let's hope 2024 turns out better!

Interesting comparison.  I just looked at that team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_New_York_Giants_season


I think this year's Giants have more offensive firepower, but that 1996 team was pretty stacked on defense

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 20, 2024, 01:03:04 PMInteresting comparison.  I just looked at that team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_New_York_Giants_season


I think this year's Giants have more offensive firepower, but that 1996 team was pretty stacked on defense

You cannot simply look at a Media Guide, or a Yearbook of the 1996 Giants, to gauge or compare them to anyone because that team was an enigma unto themselves for reasons that continue to baffle those of us who sat through that season and still shake our heads in the manner with which that organization conducted themselves.

The 1996 Giants celebrated the 10th anniversary of the Super Bowl XXI Champion 1986 Giants and the only excitement from that otherwise season in futility was watching the Giants beat down the reigning champion Cowboys 20-6 at Giants Stadium as the Super Bowl XXI Champions were honored at halftime. The other highlight, earlier in the season, when the 1956 NFL Champion Giants' team was honored at halftime, the '96 team upset the Vikings 15-10. Throughout the season, there were surprise wins over the Jimmy Johnson-led Miami Dolphins and the Lions. But there were some in-game meltdowns that left you muttering to yourself. The season ending loss to the Patriots was the microcosm of that entire season. We can talk about the emotional matchup with Bill Parcells. We can discuss  that it was Dan Reeves' last game coaching the Giants. But the game started with the Giants jumping out to a 22-0 lead, which could have, and probably should have, been more. Then, the Patriots started their comeback and took control of the game until David Meggett, of all players, ran back a punt for a TD and the writing was on the wall. One final TD gave Parcells his miracle comeback 23-22. But there were so many of those type of inconsistent games that made the '96 Giants what they were all about.

The team's defense was their strength; however, the players we know today as stars were only beginning to show glimpses of their greatness that year. Strahan, Sehorn, Armstead, Hamilton were all up and coming. But they had other up and coming players as well. Philippi Sparks was developing into a strong cover CB. The other DE, opposite Strahan, Chad Bratzke, had become a powerful bookend DE and was rapidly developing into a Pro Bowl level player. Due to salary cap constraints, the Giants paid Strahan and let Bratzke go. He went to the Colts and did achieve Pro Bowl level status, I believe.

The offense only had Rodney Hampton as their lone star player. Despite his streak of consecutive 1,000 yard seasons, he was starting to slow down in 1996 and I believe the Giants forked out a heavy contract for him that season which limited what they could do in free agency. So, Dave Brown had Chris Calloway, his primary target, to throw to. There was Thomas Lewis, Omar Douglas, Arthur Marshall and Brian Kozlowski, the TE. Amani Toomer was a rookie and primarily used for special teams. The offensive line was anchored by center Brian Williams and was aided by the addition of right guard, Ron Stone, the former Cowboy.

The team had some players, but many were "Dan Reeves' guys" who followed him to Atlanta following the '96 season.

The 1996 Giants' season was one of the most dysfunctional in the team's 100 year history. Despite honoring its championship teams from the past, 1996 revealed that the Giants had strayed from their winning ways and that a new direction was needed. Among those changes:

- Dan Reeves was fired. Although there was a story the Giants attempted to rehire Bill Parcells, and were ready to call to sign him, George Young had already signed Jim Fassel.

- 1997 would be the final season George Young would serve as GM of the Giants. His performance in the 1990s, especially his handling of the new salary cap era, was indicative that his time was up. His handling of Dan Reeves, though not all his fault, still showed some culpability on his part.

- the Dave Brown era in New York was done. In 1997, even though Jim Fassel gave Dave the starting role at season's beginning, he became injured, Danny Kanell took over and never relinquished the job.

- Under new defensive coordinator, John Fox, the Giants' defense took a quantum leap and became one of the league's best. For the first time in years, Giants' defenders were selected to the Pro Bowl (Strahan, Armstead).

In conclusion, the 1996 Giants struggled to win games as issues on and off the field interfered with their chances for success. Dan Reeves fought hard to develop young talent on the team who would later go on to achieve great success as the players matured. But make no mistake about the 1996 Giants. They were an enigmatic group who could lay an egg on you one day, then turn around and stun you by beating the best in the league. That inconsistency drove fans absolutely bonkers and, even today, makes me shake my head whenever I think about them.

Peace!

If I had to compare this team to a team I can remember in my lifetime, it might be the 1998 team. Think of the similarities:


-Suspect looking QB room with a lot of uncertainty

-Budding young star edge rusher

-Very good defensive line overall

-Talented young wideout just breaking into the league

-Young pass catching RB who was helped on special teams but had plenty of upside

-A feature linebacker


I'm not saying the two teams are close to identical, and there are tons of differences, but that was the best thing I could come up with. That team won eight games and was on its way to better things in the years to come. Maybe it's not a terrible comparison.

1983 for me, Bill Parcells' first year. The Giants made the playoffs in 1981 and then were a disappointment the (strike shortened) following season. They had a high profile FA RB on the back half of his career (Bob Carpenter) and a bunch of young guys competing for snaps behind him. Butch Woolfolk and John Tuggle were the primary candidates. Joe Morris was an afterthought at that point and would remain one for another year. There was some talent on Defense but a new defensive system under some guy named Belichick. Plenty of questions at QB with Simms, Rutledge, and Brunner, with Brunner named the starter and Simms dealing with a lingering knee injury. Does any of that sound familiar?

There was a lot of optimism with the new staff and players. It started off okay, and then went bad in a hurry. Parcells was a tri-state wide joke. I'm old enough to remember when fans were saying, "we let Ray Perkins go for this clown?" Anyway, 3-12-1 was not the improvement in 1983 that fans were hoping for. Simms was healthy the next year and reclaimed the starting job. They finished above 0.500 in 1984 and the rest, as they say, is history.

I'm going to say 2005.

2004 was Coughlin's first team, and was a transition year away from Fassel. They took plenty of lumps with Eli looking shaky as a rookie, but rallied for a final-game win vs. DAL.

The following offseason, they added Plax, McKenzie, O'Hara and Pierce.

With Plax in the fold, Eli looked like a completely different QB.

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This year, they've again added a #1 WR, 2 starting OL and a game-changing defensive player. These look like sorely-needed moves to fill holes on a roster with some pieces already in place.