Big Blue Huddle

Do you agree?

28. NEW YORK GIANTS

Devin Singletary looks to be the main back in New York after Saquon Barkley's offseason exit. He reunites with former Buffalo Bills offensive coordinator Brian Daboll after generating the fifth-best PFF wins above average figure last season (0.17).

Eric Gray is in line for RB2 duties, and rookie Tyrone Tracy is the ultimate wild card who could really boost this group, especially in the passing game.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2024-nfl-running-back-unit-rankings-49ers-dolphins

What I found interesting is that PFF didn't even stand behind their own grading system.

Last year Singletary was ranked 25th with a 75.1 grade
Barkley was tied for 36th with a 70.2 grade

Yet the Eagles, anchored by Barkley, was ranked

9. PHILADELPHIA EAGLES
While Saquon Barkley is a talented back, he has not been the same player he was as a rookie in 2018 when he took the league by storm. He rushed for more than 900 yards last season and stayed relatively healthy, which was a win in itself.

With Barkley now in Philly, paired with a better offensive line and a more diverse offense, we could see the best version of him since that rookie season. The Eagles also have the talented Kenneth Gainwell behind him.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2024-nfl-running-back-unit-rankings-49ers-dolphins

I had Singletary as the 15th best back in football last year. The Houston line was a mess most of the year before getting it together at the end and he still produced.

Barkleys analytics have been a dumpster fire the past few years, so I'm not sure how pff ignored that but it is what it is.

We shall see.  One thing I know for certain is Barkley is more talented than Singletary.  Will it translate to more success?  Way too many factors beyond either of their control will determine that.  I do wonder if it will be fun or just exhausting to see the comparisons of the two backfields on this forum for at least the next 9 months.  My guess is it may even rival the DJ exhaustion level.....  actually I doubt that 

Quote from: PSUBeirut on June 20, 2024, 11:12:51 AMOne thing I know for certain is Barkley is more talented than Singletary.

I think rookie Barkley was.   These days, not so much.  Barkley went from being a pretty good receiving RB to one that constantly fights the ball instead of being a natural pass catcher.  The extra gear/speed that made Barkley special seems to have been robbed by serious injuries.  Barkley is still a good RB, but he is not the elite/special RB that was drafted 2nd overall.

Not a lot of experience and production outside of Singletary so it's hard for me to be too critical of the ranking.  OTOH, that doesn't mean the RBs can't or won't be good. 

Who cares about talent if we don't get to see it. Give me production all day. Yes Barkley was talented, but more often than not we saw that talent dancing backwards for 2 yards.

Saquan Barkley 717 snaps
Rushing 962 yards
Receiving 280 yards

Devin Singletary 629 snaps
Rushing 898
Receiving 193

Singletary had almost a 100 less snaps than Barkley with similar production and a bad line.

Barkley is also making 7 million more a year than Singletary for the extra what 50 yards he gained on a 100 more snaps.

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 20, 2024, 11:23:00 AMI think rookie Barkley was.   These days, not so much.  Barkley went from being a pretty good receiving RB to one that constantly fights the ball instead of being a natural pass catcher.  The extra gear/speed that made Barkley special seems to have been robbed by serious injuries.  Barkley is still a good RB, but he is not the elite/special RB that was drafted 2nd overall.

That all may be true.  But he's still more talented than Devin Singletary and I don't think it's even debatable.  Whether that translates to more production on the Eagles than Singletary has on our G-men is what we'll have to see play out.  Except most everyone here says they don't care about Barkley anymore, so maybe it won't even be a topic here?    

Personally, I AM interested in following how it shakes out on the field.  It'll at least be interesting to watch if the Eagles keep running the tush push with Kelce gone, how successful it is if they do run it- or if they switch gears and let Barkley get some of those close TDs and save some pounding on Hurts.  Here's to hoping none of it finds success.        It'll also be interesting to see how our Giants change up their run schemes with Singletary in the backfield as opposed to Saquon.

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 20, 2024, 07:34:30 AMDo you agree?

Yes.

It's not a good RB room. Singletary is a complementary guy, not a lead back. Gray seems like he might just not be very good. Tracy is interesting but he's a sixth round pick, and we have not seen him touch the ball once in even a camp scrimmage let alone an actual game. Everyone else is a scrub or a major long shot.

If Tracy and Gray show something this year, then maybe they're better than 28th, but as things stand right now I'm not sure how anyone objective could quibble with this very much.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 20, 2024, 03:08:31 PMWho cares about talent if we don't get to see it. Give me production all day. Yes Barkley was talented, but more often than not we saw that talent dancing backwards for 2 yards.

Saquan Barkley 717 snaps
Rushing 962 yards
Receiving 280 yards

Devin Singletary 629 snaps
Rushing 898
Receiving 193

Singletary had almost a 100 less snaps than Barkley with similar production and a bad line.

Barkley is also making 7 million more a year than Singletary for the extra what 50 yards he gained on a 100 more snaps.

I don't know how Houston's OL graded out for the year, but offense was in the top half of the league in yards and points.

It's a little easier to run the ball within a fully functioning offense that has the threat of a pass.  Its absolutely apples to oranges in that regard.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 20, 2024, 03:08:31 PMWho cares about talent if we don't get to see it. Give me production all day. Yes Barkley was talented, but more often than not we saw that talent dancing backwards for 2 yards.

Saquan Barkley 717 snaps
Rushing 962 yards
Receiving 280 yards

Devin Singletary 629 snaps
Rushing 898
Receiving 193

Singletary had almost a 100 less snaps than Barkley with similar production and a bad line.

Barkley is also making 7 million more a year than Singletary for the extra what 50 yards he gained on a 100 more snaps.

Bingo.

This RB crew is going to be our best surprise.

I predict Singletary has more yards and TDs than Saquon

Quote from: uconnjack8 on June 20, 2024, 08:43:43 PMI don't know how Houston's OL graded out for the year, but offense was in the top half of the league in yards and points.

It's a little easier to run the ball within a fully functioning offense that has the threat of a pass.  Its absolutely apples to oranges in that regard.

Houstons Oline much like our own was in shambles most of the year due to injury. I believe they were only reasonable the last 4-5 games and their playoff game which probably brought their grade up significantly. Having an Elite Rookie Qb also helps with that even if he didn't have an actual #1 to throw to.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on June 20, 2024, 08:58:06 PMHoustons Oline much like our own was in shambles most of the year due to injury. I believe they were only reasonable the last 4-5 games and their playoff game which probably brought their grade up significantly. Having an Elite Rookie Qb also helps with that even if he didn't have an actual #1 to throw to.

According to PFF they were the 16th ranked OL in week 6.  I cant see the end of year because I am not a subscriber. Seems like they were in a different class in weeks 1-6

https://texanswire.usatoday.com/2023/10/11/texans-16-pro-football-focus-week-6-ol-rankings/
 
It's really not even just the OL.  They had a high functioning passing attack.  Whether the WRs are more or less talented than the Giants is really irrelevant.  How many halves did Houston throw the ball less than 5 times? Texans had the 7th ranked passing offense last year.  The Giants had the 31st. 

If a team A trades a player who has guaranteed salary, say 27 million, left on his contract to team B and part of the deal is the team A agrees to pay, say 15 million of that salary does that get reflected in their respective CAP hits?  IOW, would 15 million count against team As CAP and 12 million against team B?

[[There were so many misprints in my posts, I thought I'd clean them up, combine them, and re-post them here.  Apologies.]]


Rich:  I agree PFF seemed to ignore their own ranking system in arriving at their conclusion.  Furthermore, the difference in the offensive lines (especially that of the Eagles) is IMO significant (this year vs. last year).

The best (or 2nd-best) man on Eagles OL is gone. It remains to be seen who will play center and how great the loss, if any, might be. Also, their 2nd-best (or best) lineman Lane Johnson is at or near the end of his career. Let's see how long he lasts physically, given his age and lengthy injury history.

In short, the factor most worthy of mention in analyzing who will have the better-performing ground game this year (Eagles or Giants) is the other components of each offense. The Eagles have a scary passing attack. The Giants have a fistful of hope. The run ability of Jones vs. Hurts is about equal.

Bob

PS.  A lot of posters here have argued since we drafted Saquon that RB is not as important a position as it once was, considering increased emphasis on throwing the ball.  They contend that RB is not a place to spend a lot of super-high draft capital (i.e., $$$).  This year might put that theory to the test.

Quote from: Bob In PA on June 21, 2024, 06:11:03 AM[[There were so many misprints in my posts, I thought I'd clean them up, combine them, and re-post them here.  Apologies.]]


Rich:  I agree PFF seemed to ignore their own ranking system in arriving at their conclusion.  Furthermore, the difference in the offensive lines (especially that of the Eagles) is IMO significant (this year vs. last year).

The best (or 2nd-best) man on Eagles OL is gone. It remains to be seen who will play center and how great the loss, if any, might be. Also, their 2nd-best (or best) lineman Lane Johnson is at or near the end of his career. Let's see how long he lasts physically, given his age and lengthy injury history.

In short, the factor most worthy of mention in analyzing who will have the better-performing ground game this year (Eagles or Giants) is the other components of each offense. The Eagles have a scary passing attack. The Giants have a fistful of hope. The run ability of Jones vs. Hurts is about equal.

Bob

PS.  A lot of posters here have argued since we drafted Saquon that RB is not as important a position as it once was, considering increased emphasis on throwing the ball.  They contend that RB is not a place to spend a lot of super-high draft capital (i.e., $$$).  This year might put that theory to the test.

Bob,

I think there is a bit of a paradox at running back.  It's my opinion the running game is still an important aspect of a team's success.  That said, I don't think the value of individual RBs is that great.  Between an overall surplus of RB talent in the league and their relatively short shelf life, individual runners are not that valuable compared to other positions.