Big Blue Huddle

The Los Angeles Lakers just hired JJ Reddick to be head coach.  He has never coached in the NBA either as an assistant or HC.  The previous people hired without NBA coaching experience of any kind have all lasted less than 2 seasons as HC.

As fans we absolutely have a right to question the decisions teams make that we cheer for.  Any person is capable of making a stupid decision.  Same with an organization especially when groupthink may occur.

This brings me to Brian Daboll.  Was he really the OC or quarterback whisperer that he is purports to be?  I never saw him as some "wonder kid" savant like other coaches of the past.

Quote from: Philosophers on June 22, 2024, 09:18:55 AMThe Los Angeles Lakers just hired JJ Reddick to be head coach.  He has never coached in the NBA either as an assistant or HC.  The previous people hired without NBA coaching experience of any kind have all lasted less than 2 seasons as HC.

As fans we absolutely have a right to question the decisions teams make that we cheer for.  Any person is capable of making a stupid decision.  Same with an organization especially when groupthink may occur.

This brings me to Brian Daboll.  Was he really the OC or quarterback whisperer that he is purports to be?  I never saw him as some "wonder kid" savant like other coaches of the past.

In terms of Brian Daboll, I am holding out hope that the Giants can catch lightening in a bottle twice.  Remember, Tom Coughlin was considered a flawed HC who was hopelessly out of touch with his players (until he refined himself).   I am hopeful that the disaster that was last season and its aftermath will have a similar impact on Brian Daboll

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 22, 2024, 09:29:29 AMIn terms of Brian Daboll, I am holding out hope that the Giants can catch lightening in a bottle twice.  Remember, Tom Coughlin was considered a flawed HC who was hopelessly out of touch with his players (until he refined himself).   I am hopeful that the disaster that was last season and its aftermath will have a similar impact on Brian Daboll

He needs to calm down a bit.   Love the enthusiasm but not the red face and scalp
He would be a lot calmer if he figures a way to gracefully bench Jones if Jones continues to play like Jones. 

Then again Jones has the physical tools.  Perhaps this new non Barkley oriented offense will revive Danny Dimes and we will finally enter the offense loaded NFL as a peer and not the most predictable offense in sports. 

Gotta get out of 3rd and long mode to beget third and short mode.

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 22, 2024, 09:29:29 AMIn terms of Brian Daboll, I am holding out hope that the Giants can catch lightening in a bottle twice.  Remember, Tom Coughlin was considered a flawed HC who was hopelessly out of touch with his players (until he refined himself).   I am hopeful that the disaster that was last season and its aftermath will have a similar impact on Brian Daboll

Rich - I don't think Dabs' temper was the reason for the Giants drop in '23.  I think he came up with a lousy preseason camp strategy that had the Giants completely unprepared for the beginning of the '23 season.  No continuity of starters until very end of camp.  Less live play hitting and more walk throughs.

I kind of agree on Daboll.

I'm pulling for him, but I am not as wow'd by him as everyone else.

He gets a lot of credit for Josh Allen, but Ben McAdoo coached Aaron Rodgers. Mike Kafka coached Patrick Mahomes. Daboll coached Brady too. Those QBs are great players, period. Yet everyone loves to give Daboll credit for Allen. Allen exploded when they picked up Stefon Diggs. That's what happened. It wasn't Daboll just molding him into a great QB.

If you look at his larger body of work, there isn't much success developing QBs or great offenses. I am certainly not giving him credit for Belichick/Brady's Patriots or Saban's Tide.

Last year was the picture of incompetence. We'll see - because I don't think the Giants roster is nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Not this year.

Quote from: Philosophers on June 22, 2024, 09:18:55 AMThe Los Angeles Lakers just hired JJ Reddick to be head coach.  He has never coached in the NBA either as an assistant or HC.  The previous people hired without NBA coaching experience of any kind have all lasted less than 2 seasons as HC.

As fans we absolutely have a right to question the decisions teams make that we cheer for.  Any person is capable of making a stupid decision.  Same with an organization especially when groupthink may occur.

This brings me to Brian Daboll.  Was he really the OC or quarterback whisperer that he is purports to be?  I never saw him as some "wonder kid" savant like other coaches of the past.

Interesting.

What is the definition of a "stupid" decision?

How do you differentiate a "stupid" decision versus taking action using a plan or, in your case, hiring a staff, which didn't work out, for which there could have been reasons that had little or nothing to do with the hire.

I trust you are putting Schoen in the crosshairs of your question in hiring Daboll. In his case, you can definitely make a valid case for groupthink in that he brought in a head coach from Buffalo and Daboll, in turn, brought in players from Buffalo as well.

As to your final paragraph, I'd suggest we wait and see this season before drawing any conclusions since he'll be the one calling the plays and this season he has cleaned out the roster and installed his guys so this is now his team, for better or for worse. I think we're going to see a head coach who went through baptism by fire the hard way and survived to become a better version of himself. The man is NOT stupid!!! He IS hard working, dedicated and plans to make the most of what he has with his team this coming season. He understands his team has limitations so he will find ways to stay competitive to keep his team in games he may or may not have any business being in. Even if he doesn't win, his players fight hard and play for him.

At that point, you can stay the course to let this thing develop or you can let him go, say he's not a whispering anything and, as a fan scream "stupid decision." There! You feel better now? Back to square one. But what if they would have just let it develop another year. One more draft, more signings, maybe an upgrade to the QB situation, and all of a sudden they then break out and blossom into a contender? Then I would agree it was a stupid decision; a stupid decision to quit when they were close to turning it around.

For the record, the use of the term "stupid" rubs me the wrong way. It's definition is self-explanatory and none of these folks in this business are stupid. They may have miscalculated. Sometimes you'll find someone who has reached their level of incompetence. You take a chance to see if they can take the next step. Some can, some cannot. It doesn't make them, nor the decision makers stupid. Every decision carries a risk. How much risk are you willing to assume in return for the magnitude of what could go wrong. But, in parallel, by making a hire, what opportunity do you invest in that could yield you a return of investment? Those are more realistic methods of weighing a decision in terms of whether it was good or poor.

I'm not ragging on you personally, mind you. It's a peeve of mine. I try to show empathy to others and be respectful, but know I have a ways to go. The Three Best/Worst Coaches thread is a fine example of that. But that might be the lone exception of the "stupidest" decision in Giants history!



Peace!

Quote from: Philosophers on June 22, 2024, 09:45:02 AMRich - I don't think Dabs' temper was the reason for the Giants drop in '23.  I think he came up with a lousy preseason camp strategy that had the Giants completely unprepared for the beginning of the '23 season.  No continuity of starters until very end of camp.  Less live play hitting and more walk throughs.

Phil,

This makes plenty of sense, and it also illuminates the point that fans and beat reporters often have a warped idea (or no idea at all) about how a given camp and preseason regimen actually went. The Giants got raves across the board from the beat reporter community and fans for how well camp and preseason went, especially for the offense. And then the whole team couldn't have been worse in week one and well beyond week one.

If a bad camp regimen was a big driver of why they were so bad especially early in the season, then that's an interesting contrast to what lots of people were saying about their 2023 camp in real time.

 YOur statement is incorrect. The Lakers hired Pat Riley who was an announcer, that worked out pretty good. I think Daboll must have been pretty good as he has worked for the best and kept getting hired as an assistant prior to being a head coach. Daboll is the opposite of the novice coach as he waited decades for this opportunity

Quote from: kartanoman on June 22, 2024, 10:07:25 AMInteresting.

What is the definition of a "stupid" decision?

How do you differentiate a "stupid" decision versus taking action using a plan or, in your case, hiring a staff, which didn't work out, for which there could have been reasons that had little or nothing to do with the hire.

I trust you are putting Schoen in the crosshairs of your question in hiring Daboll. In his case, you can definitely make a valid case for groupthink in that he brought in a head coach from Buffalo and Daboll, in turn, brought in players from Buffalo as well.

As to your final paragraph, I'd suggest we wait and see this season before drawing any conclusions since he'll be the one calling the plays and this season he has cleaned out the roster and installed his guys so this is now his team, for better or for worse. I think we're going to see a head coach who went through baptism by fire the hard way and survived to become a better version of himself. The man is NOT stupid!!! He IS hard working, dedicated and plans to make the most of what he has with his team this coming season. He understands his team has limitations so he will find ways to stay competitive to keep his team in games he may or may not have any business being in. Even if he doesn't win, his players fight hard and play for him.

At that point, you can stay the course to let this thing develop or you can let him go, say he's not a whispering anything and, as a fan scream "stupid decision." There! You feel better now? Back to square one. But what if they would have just let it develop another year. One more draft, more signings, maybe an upgrade to the QB situation, and all of a sudden they then break out and blossom into a contender? Then I would agree it was a stupid decision; a stupid decision to quit when they were close to turning it around.

For the record, the use of the term "stupid" rubs me the wrong way. It's definition is self-explanatory and none of these folks in this business are stupid. They may have miscalculated. Sometimes you'll find someone who has reached their level of incompetence. You take a chance to see if they can take the next step. Some can, some cannot. It doesn't make them, nor the decision makers stupid. Every decision carries a risk. How much risk are you willing to assume in return for the magnitude of what could go wrong. But, in parallel, by making a hire, what opportunity do you invest in that could yield you a return of investment? Those are more realistic methods of weighing a decision in terms of whether it was good or poor.

I'm not ragging on you personally, mind you. It's a peeve of mine. I try to show empathy to others and be respectful, but know I have a ways to go. The Three Best/Worst Coaches thread is a fine example of that. But that might be the lone exception of the "stupidest" decision in Giants history!



Peace!

No offense taken.  All I am saying is that NBA untested new hires as HC have a track record of failing miserably.  If you are a storied franchise like the Lakers, why take such a gamble?  It's a mistake my management IMHO that as a fan we'd have a right to question.  Todge likes to say that fans should never question team's management as they have so much experience, but honestly, I see bonehead decisions that from the start were bad decisions.

I was not questioning Schoen.  I was just asking about Dabs independently as like 4Aces wrote, I don't understand the credit he gets as an offensive mastermind.

Quote from: Philosophers on June 22, 2024, 10:56:48 AMNo offense taken.  All I am saying is that NBA untested new hires as HC have a track record of failing miserably.  If you are a storied franchise like the Lakers, why take such a gamble?  It's a mistake my management IMHO that as a fan we'd have a right to question.  Todge likes to say that fans should never question team's management as they have so much experience, but honestly, I see bonehead decisions that from the start were bad decisions.

I was not questioning Schoen.  I was just asking about Dabs independently as like 4Aces wrote, I don't understand the credit he gets as an offensive mastermind.

I appreciate the clarification and context. You are fair to question and I have similar questions. But I'm also open to accept he made a lot of rookie coach mistakes last year, even though he was in his second year. Whether he is a mastermind in theory, but lacks the resources, or the whole concept was a manufactured image to begin with that he's being held to, this year he should have learned many lessons from the trials and tribulations from the past season.

The Lakers do have a storied history of great success. I guess we can be the great prognosticators of the sports world. But unless we've really walked the walk, are we truly entitled to judge? On a board like this, without accountability, lest we police ourselves? But the ability to converse with great folks such as yourself is what makes it valuable and enjoyable.

Thanks again!

Peace!

Quote from: FL GMAN on June 22, 2024, 10:39:28 AMYOur statement is incorrect. The Lakers hired Pat Riley who was an announcer, that worked out pretty good. I think Daboll must have been pretty good as he has worked for the best and kept getting hired as an assistant prior to being a head coach. Daboll is the opposite of the novice coach as he waited decades for this opportunity

Pat Riley was an announcer then Paul Westhead hired him as an assistant coach on the Lakers.  He became a head coach afterward so he had NBA coaching experience prior to becoming a head coach.