Big Blue Huddle

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-expands-on-issues-between-giants-brian-daboll-coaching-assistants/ar-BB1p0usv?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=cf04e1be259047f69cb20a66654b6f4f&ei=57


For a piece published on Thursday, Jordan Raanan of ESPN expanded on behind-the-scenes issues involving New York Giants head coach Brian Daboll, former defensive coordinator Don "Wink" Martindale, current New York offensive coordinator Mike Kafka and other assistants that impacted the club throughout last season.

Interesting last paragraph

Logic suggests Daboll understands that Giants co-owner John Mara could go in a different direction this coming January if the team endures another losing season and Bill Belichick remains interested in returning to where he first made his name as an assistant and a defensive coordinator from 1979 through the 1990 campaign.

Here is the ESPN article that story was based on.  It's a long but good read


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40439296/how-brian-daboll-giants-rebuilding-ahead-2024-season

I have no confidence that John Mara has the capacity for sound and well-reasoned judgement following the foolishness of the Gettleman hire when he used Ernie Accorsi as cover for his resumption of the Mara family's compulsive cronyism. Thus, while I don't expect it to happen, whether or not the Giants can muster a winning season, I can understand why Raanan might think of it worth speculating on a possible interest in Belichick another crony well-past his expiration date.

Cheers!

Quote from: LennG on June 27, 2024, 01:09:59 PMhttps://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/report-expands-on-issues-between-giants-brian-daboll-coaching-assistants/ar-BB1p0usv?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=cf04e1be259047f69cb20a66654b6f4f&ei=57


For a piece published on Thursday, Jordan Raanan of ESPN expanded on behind-the-scenes issues involving New York Giants head coach Brian Daboll, former defensive coordinator Don "Wink" Martindale, current New York offensive coordinator Mike Kafka and other assistants that impacted the club throughout last season.

Interesting last paragraph

Logic suggests Daboll understands that Giants co-owner John Mara could go in a different direction this coming January if the team endures another losing season and Bill Belichick remains interested in returning to where he first made his name as an assistant and a defensive coordinator from 1979 through the 1990 campaign.

That last sentence appears to be based on nothing but the author's conjecture (i.e. his supposed "logic"). I'm highly speculative (before getting into whether that would even be a good idea for the Giants).

Quote from: Painter on June 27, 2024, 01:42:59 PMI have no confidence that John Mara has the capacity for sound and well-reasoned judgement following the foolishness of the Gettleman hire when he used Ernie Accorsi as cover for his resumption of the Mara family's compulsive cronyism. Thus, while I don't expect it to happen, whether or not the Giants can muster a winning season, I can understand why Raanan might think of it worth speculating on a possible interest in Belichick another crony well-past his expiration date.

Cheers!

Larry,

I believe that is the small original part of Len's article.  I am pretty sure I didn't see Belichick speculation in Raanan's article.  Not that I haven't heard beat writers speculate about Belichick.

Got it. Thanks, Rich.

Cheers!

The two biggest takeaways, for me anyway, were the following:

"The second-year general manager was on the headsets for four games, from Weeks 11-15. The Giants went 3-1 during that stretch, during which time multiple sources indicated things changed. But the superstitious Schoen hung up his headset for good after a Dec. 17 loss to the New Orleans Saints.

Martindale and his defensive crew knew Schoen was listening during that time. They used code words to tip each other off to his presence, according to multiple sources who were on the headsets. Daboll was muted and more composed."

"Daboll has defensive line coach Andre Patterson working with the edge rushers and outside linebackers coach Charlie Bullen, something that wasn't done previously when Patterson and the previous regime butted heads. There was a clear disconnect between the pass rush and interior of the defensive line, which could have contributed to the Giants' trouble stopping the run (27th in NFL)."

I have continually been of belief that Daboll did not handle it well (with the outbursts and theatrics) but that he was pushed, prodded and systematically send there by Martindale.  Just my opinion but I think Wink wanted head coaching job here and when things started to go oh so bad he pounced and back-stabbed Dabs.  The 2 nuggets above seem to forward some of that, IMO.

Why write an article digging this up all over again? It's a new season and to drop seeds to stir up xxxx is beneath even a NY sportswriter counter-productive and reeks of an attention-grabbing opportunity. Especially the way he ended it.

The better approach would have been to highlight those positive changes that were made and how the new roles are designed to make for a more effective coaching staff and a better team. Most fans want to move on and look forward to a better season. Instead of dropping the groundwork for, "I called it before the season started". 

Careful, Ed. Some folks might start confusing you with a gentler, more diplomatic me. Oof!

Cheers!

Quote from: Ed Vette on June 27, 2024, 04:24:03 PMWhy write an article digging this up all over again? It's a new season and to drop seeds to stir up xxxx is beneath even a NY sportswriter counter-productive and reeks of an attention-grabbing opportunity. Especially the way he ended it.

The better approach would have been to highlight those positive changes that were made and how the new roles are designed to make for a more effective coaching staff and a better team. Most fans want to move on and look forward to a better season. Instead of dropping the groundwork for, "I called it before the season started". 

My guess is that Jordan learned more (there were stories in the article I hadn't heard before).  In terms of positive changes, considering that Daboll has pretty much denied there was an issue, it's sort of hard to highlight the positive changes.

For what it's worth, I did see reports that Daboll losing it during practices didn't happen this year.  So, hopefully even if Daboll hasn't publicly acknowledged the issue he has taken steps to resolve the issue.

Quote from: Puffy on June 27, 2024, 03:44:02 PMThe two biggest takeaways, for me anyway, were the following:

"The second-year general manager was on the headsets for four games, from Weeks 11-15. The Giants went 3-1 during that stretch, during which time multiple sources indicated things changed. But the superstitious Schoen hung up his headset for good after a Dec. 17 loss to the New Orleans Saints.

Martindale and his defensive crew knew Schoen was listening during that time. They used code words to tip each other off to his presence, according to multiple sources who were on the headsets. Daboll was muted and more composed."

"Daboll has defensive line coach Andre Patterson working with the edge rushers and outside linebackers coach Charlie Bullen, something that wasn't done previously when Patterson and the previous regime butted heads. There was a clear disconnect between the pass rush and interior of the defensive line, which could have contributed to the Giants' trouble stopping the run (27th in NFL)."

I have continually been of belief that Daboll did not handle it well (with the outbursts and theatrics) but that he was pushed, prodded and systematically send there by Martindale.  Just my opinion but I think Wink wanted head coaching job here and when things started to go oh so bad he pounced and back-stabbed Dabs.  The 2 nuggets above seem to forward some of that, IMO.

I don't think it was a good look for Wink to be butting heads with Andre Patterson.   Patterson is one of the best D-line coaches in the league and has had an impressive career.   Much as I put the blame on Daboll for letting things get out of hand with Wink, this is on Wink not to get along with Patterson (who he hired).  It's possible we will see addition by subtraction in terms of Wink leaving

I for one would love to see the GOAT back here coaching the Giants.

Why settle for hamburger when you could have steak

Dabs might not have the temperament or people skills to be an effective HC

Belichick and Schoen would make a very strong management team. 

Having said that Jones and Daboll are both under the microscope and
I hope as a fan that both are very successful this season

Quote from: MightyGiants on June 28, 2024, 07:02:41 AMMy guess is that Jordan learned more (there were stories in the article I hadn't heard before).  In terms of positive changes, considering that Daboll has pretty much denied there was an issue, it's sort of hard to highlight the positive changes.

For what it's worth, I did see reports that Daboll losing it during practices didn't happen this year.  So, hopefully even if Daboll hasn't publicly acknowledged the issue he has taken steps to resolve the issue.

We were at just about every practice last summer. Never saw him lose it.

The positive changes I was referring to had nothing to do with behavior. It was the positive things he sandwiched in between in the article.

Quote from: Ed Vette on June 28, 2024, 08:04:12 AMWe were at just about every practice last summer. Never saw him lose it.

The positive changes I was referring to had nothing to do with behavior. It was the positive things he sandwiched in between in the article.

An interesting thing that Daboll did that was somewhat unique is that he didn't fill out his staff with friends and former coworkers.  Daboll cast a wide net and interviewed coaches that he hadn't worked with before in an effort to maximize the overall talent of his coaching staff.

What was interesting is that some former NFL people faulted this approach.  The argument was that in hard times, the previous bonds of friendship and the like helped keep the staff stay together during hard times.   

Im growing weary of Hard Times.   Life is short, we need to right the ship this season.

This is Daboll and Schoens 3rd season.   After 3 seasons there should be considerable improvement this year. No?  If not we got snookered once again

Does John Mara have Belichick's cell phone number?  If these two have another season below 500 heads could and should roll.  Its a tough business. Loosing is getting unbearable