Big Blue Huddle

I know Mike thinks Jones sucks and thinks the Giants were morons to give him this contract, and I understand many here respect his views in general, but this is an utterly idiotic question. For reasons already stated in this thread.

Unless I'm mistaken he's not suggesting Jones bank account goes down by a single dollar. He's suggesting easily achieved incentives as a way to circumvent the salary cap.

Quote from: Gmo11 on July 11, 2024, 04:15:46 AMUnless I'm mistaken he's not suggesting Jones bank account goes down by a single dollar. He's suggesting easily achieved incentives as a way to circumvent the salary cap.

What on the field incentive is "easily achievable" for a player who has been seriously injured in four of his five season as a pro and who is coming off ACL surgery and his second serious neck injury?

If the Giants wanted to create cap room to tag Barkley, they could have easily spread out Jones' gargantuan 2024 $47mm cap hit. They didn't do that, because they don't want to be tied down to him beyond this season any more than they already are. That was their decision, and in my opinion it was the correct decision. However it is not on Jones to put himself in a position where an injury could sap him of up to $10mm he previously had coming to him when his own team is saying they don't want to restructure his contract because they want to make sure they are able to easily cut him after this season if they want to. That's insanity.

Further, if you're Jones, and you know the team was talking to the Pats about potentially moving up to draft someone who would be there to take your job, why would you be looking to alter an already firmly agreed upon deal in a way that jeopardizes your compensation?

Also, Jones had Barkley last year. What good did it do exactly? It was a bottom three to bottom five offense with him. Why would he jeopardize his compensation to facilitate a move to preserve something that wasn't helping last year?

Lastly, it seems fairly clear that neither Barkley nor Schoen wanted to put the tag in place. Barkley might have held out if the Giants had done that, and even if he didn't he would have been very unhappy, which would only have added to the pall that has hung over this locker room for vast majority of the past decade due to all the losing. And Schoen (as he made clear in episode two) wanted no part of that idea either. So even if Jones had been willing to do Lombardi's suggestion, both the Giants' front office and Barkley had zero interest in it.

It's just a silly (which is the less unkind way of saying what I mean) suggestion that is totally irrational. And when Lombardi says stuff like this it's a reminder of why he is no longer employed by an NFL front office.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on July 10, 2024, 05:54:52 PMAaron Rodgers took a pay cut so the Jets could sign Dalvin Cook. Unfortunately, Daniel Jones is not Aaron Rodgers. DJ likely understands he's not getting a second big contract and the team isn't a serious contender, so he has no real incentive to take less money now.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/08/17/dalvin-cook-explains-how-aaron-rodgers-played-role-in-him-joining-jets

Rodgers took a generic paycut.  Cook was one of the players signed after that cut.  Still, you're correct.  Jones isn't Rogers, Jones hasn't already made well in excess of $300 million and his contract hadn't been done with a team other than the one he played for.

Quote from: Gmo11 on July 11, 2024, 04:15:46 AMUnless I'm mistaken he's not suggesting Jones bank account goes down by a single dollar. He's suggesting easily achieved incentives as a way to circumvent the salary cap.

To be clear, there are two types of incentives.  There are likely to be earned incentives, which are incentives that, based on his previous season of play, he would have earned.  Those count immediately against a player's cap numbers.  The other type is not likely to be earned, which requires the player to perform better than he has.  I guess it's possible, due to DJ missing most of last season, they could game the contract a bit (although you would be essentially just borrowing future cap money, and there are plenty of other ways to do that).  Still, Jones would assume all the risk should the offensive line prove to be porous again, and he would get hurt again.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 10, 2024, 07:58:28 PMI know Mike thinks Jones sucks and thinks the Giants were morons to give him this contract, and I understand many here respect his views in general, but this is an utterly idiotic question. For reasons already stated in this thread.

Mike doesn't think Jones sucks.  Mike thinks the Giants overpaid.  If Jones had a contract in the $30 million range, I think Lombardi would be fine with Jones.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 11, 2024, 06:59:29 AMRodgers took a generic paycut.  Cook was one of the players signed after that cut.  Still, you're correct.  Jones isn't Rogers, Jones hasn't already made well in excess of $300 million and his contract hadn't been done with a team other than the one he played for.

A "generic" cut as opposed to what? Rodgers spoke to Dalvin Cook about joining the Jets then he agreed to a pay cut to allow it to happen.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 11, 2024, 06:12:42 AMIt's just a silly (which is the less unkind way of saying what I mean) suggestion that is totally irrational. And when Lombardi says stuff like this it's a reminder of why he is no longer employed by an NFL front office.

I agree it's a silly idea, but I disagree that it says anything about Lombardi's employment status. He threw an idea out there. I don't think it's any deeper than that.

Jones doesn't have any incentive to sacrifice a single dollar for the good of the team. He and his agents backed Schoen into a corner a year ago. Whether Schoen has any regrets about that contract or not, it's not up to Jones to help correct Schoen's mistake.

Jones is going to have to produce this season to avoid being cut next year. That would be the case whether or not he agreed to a restructure this season. If anything, Schoen might have leverage next year to try and force a restructure onto Jones. He just doesn't have leverage now.

Quote from: Gmo11 on July 11, 2024, 04:15:46 AMUnless I'm mistaken he's not suggesting Jones bank account goes down by a single dollar. He's suggesting easily achieved incentives as a way to circumvent the salary cap.

We're talking about Daniel Jones, so even a ridiculously easy incentive might be too high a hurdle for Daniel. From what I understand,  Jones already has $35 million worth of incentives in his contract and didn't reach any of them this past season. He wouldn't have reached any of the TD or yards incentives in any of his previous 4 seasons. He could've hit the playing time incentives if he stayed injury free but if you're Daniel Jones, staying injury free is not an easy bar to clear.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on July 11, 2024, 08:13:28 AMWe're talking about Daniel Jones, so even a ridiculously easy incentive might be too high a hurdle for Daniel. From what I understand,  Jones already has $35 million worth of incentives in his contract and didn't reach any of them this past season. He wouldn't have reached any of the TD or yards incentives in any of his previous 4 seasons. He could've hit the playing time incentives if he stayed injury free but if you're Daniel Jones, staying injury free is not an easy bar to clear.

Fair enough. Tough to reach incentive if you're never on the field and when you are it's not pretty.

@Gmo11 and @Doc16LT56

I think Lombardi has you losing the plot. If the Giants wanted to sign Barkley at $12.5 million that the Eagles signed him for they could have just as easily restructured Dex's or AT's contract to free up the money.

Incentives don't circumvent the salary cap unlikely to be earned incentives (those charged after the season) just borrow money from the future, just like the restructured I suggested

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 11, 2024, 11:19:43 AM@Gmo11 and @Doc16LT56

I think Lombardi has you losing the plot. If the Giants wanted to sign Barkley at $12.5 million that the Eagles signed him for they could have just as easily restructured Dex's or AT's contract to free up the money.

Incentives don't circumvent the salary cap unlikely to be earned incentives (those charged after the season) just borrow money from the future, just like the restructured I suggested

I think it's you who's lost the plot. Lombardi tweeted a dumb idea which isn't as deep as some folks would like it to be. We can all interpret his tweet in whatever way we want, but the drum that Lombardi keeps beating is that the Giants are an incoherent organization. I haven't seen anything so far that makes me think he's wrong about that.

One Giant beat writer pointed out the team had $30 million in cap space after signing DJ. That's more than enough to pay Barkley. Like most GMs, Schoen put a price tag on Barkley and refused to go over that number.


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I wonder if Art was thinking of Mike when he Tweeted this


Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
I'm going to let #NYGiants fans who follow me in on a little dirty secret:

They slam your team because of you. You care. You engage. You get them attention. You disagree with the opinion, yet you forward it to others and get them more attention.

They're going to keep doing it because you care.

Carl Banks
@CarlBanksGIII
I have 3 serious questions:

1. If a coach has a few bad yrs  Does the GM ask him to take a pay cut?

2. If a GM has few bad drafts, does he take a pay cut?

3.  When a coach or GM gets fired, why are the remainder of their deals paid?
🤔
Ps. If any fmr execs wanna answer. 🗣Go
7:59 PM · Jul 10, 2024
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