Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: PSUBeirut on July 11, 2024, 04:44:58 PMWith all due respect you are way too sensitive when it comes to criticism of Daniel Jones. I also wonder what other games Peterson has played against DJ and how those factored into his assessment. But regardless, Peterson is absolutely qualified to give assessments on QBs he has faced in his long career whether we like what he says or not.

Being honest is different than being qualified.   I am sensitive to dishonesty, not criticism of DJ. 

IMO it's a fair assessment. The dispositive factor... Peterson has nothing to gain by being unfair. Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 11, 2024, 04:48:41 PMBeing honest is different than being qualified.   I am sensitive to dishonesty, not criticism of DJ. 

Rich,

Why do you think his only knowledge of Daniel Jones as a player is confined to the two games the Giants played against the Vikes in the 2022 reg season and playoffs? Are you of the opinion that Peterson, a longtime vet and great player, is completely oblivious of all other data on Daniel Jones' NFL career?

I understand that he mentioned that he played against him a couple of times, but I don't see why that means that's all he knows about him. In fact, I strongly think it is not all he knows about him.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 11, 2024, 05:07:46 PMRich,

Why do you think his only knowledge of Daniel Jones as a player is confined to the two games the Giants played against the Vikes in the 2022 reg season and playoffs? Are you of the opinion that Peterson, a longtime vet and great player, is completely oblivious of all other data on Daniel Jones' NFL career?

I understand that he mentioned that he played against him a couple of times, but I don't see why that means that's all he knows about him. In fact, I strongly think it is not all he knows about him.

That's right. You're all forgetting that he played for the Cardinals and his first ever meeting Daniel Jones was in the 2019 season when the Cards visited the Sardine Can and the Cards won the game 27-21. Peterson racked up seven (7) solo tackles, one (1) QB sack which led to a forced fumble that his teammate recovered.

So, the man owns Daniel Jones from his rookie season, he owns him through infinity, makes perfect sense to me.

Say anything to say anything.

Next topic?

Peace!

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 11, 2024, 05:07:46 PMRich,

Why do you think his only knowledge of Daniel Jones as a player is confined to the two games the Giants played against the Vikes in the 2022 reg season and playoffs? Are you of the opinion that Peterson, a longtime vet and great player, is completely oblivious of all other data on Daniel Jones' NFL career?

I understand that he mentioned that he played against him a couple of times, but I don't see why that means that's all he knows about him. In fact, I strongly think it is not all he knows about him.

This is his exact quote:  "I had an oppotunity to play againts Daniel Jones a couple of times- ain't nothing impressive about him to defense"

Unless you are arguing that DJ's very impressive performance against him in the playoffs wasn't "impressive," the man is full of crap (and animosity toward Jones).

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 12, 2024, 07:51:51 AMThis is his exact quote:  "I had an oppotunity to play againts Daniel Jones a couple of times- ain't nothing impressive about him to defense"

Unless you are arguing that DJ's very impressive performance against him in the playoffs wasn't "impressive," the man is full of crap (and animosity toward Jones).

I posted above about his 300+ yard games that season came against the two teams that gave up the most yards to EVERYONE in the league: Detroit and Minnesota, and they played Minny twice. In his other 15 games, he didn't even hit 250 yards passing.

So when you peel back the layers, no, what he did against Minny wasn't very impressive since just about every QB that faced that defense put up similar numbers. It's like a Par 4 golf hole. I'd give him a birdie on a normal difficulty hole. Everyone else birdied the hole as well.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 11, 2024, 03:56:24 PMIf you are going to break things down to this level, you should also note that DJ's outstanding performance (by any standard) that Paterson directly observed was in a big game setting. DJ was operating with the 24th-ranked pass protection (per PFF) and the 27th-ranked receiving group. Some could try to claim Barkley carried the offense, but in that game, Barkley's 53 rushing yards were a distant second to DJ's 78 yards.

Had Paterson not qualified his criticism as being direct observations, I would have a different take, but since he made that claim, it's pretty clear the man has an ax to grind in terms of DJ. 

For starters, people have to stop focusing on the "environment" of that game. Going on the road and winning is usually impressive because you are generally not going up against one of the worst defenses in the league and sometimes you have to do it in bad weather. Jones was playing in a dome against one of the worst defenses in the league. That Vikings team was probably the worst 13 win team we'll see in a while.

I've also seen a lot of people trying to discount Peterson as a source here when he has absolutely no reason to have any sort of sour grapes over the situation. He was a 32 year old CB in that game but is also one of the best players at his position over the past 15 years. There is every reason to listen to what he said, especially when he's just parroting what a lot of others have said about Jones. He has all the physical tools but doesn't process well has been said about him since his draft year. And if you want a reference on that, here's Todd McShay talking about him on his draft night:

https://x.com/KidBlueRB27/status/1764266775951131009

Quote from: jgrangers2 on July 12, 2024, 08:09:54 AMFor starters, people have to stop focusing on the "environment" of that game.

Loud domes like the one the Vikings play in, make it much harder for the offense.  The advantage of the O-line knowing the snap count is lost, it's challenging for all the offensive players to hear the play calls.   QBs need to go to hand signals if they want to check out of a play.   There is a reason why teams that play in noisy stadiums tend to have much better home/away win ratios than the rest of the NFL teams.

Quote from: T200 on July 12, 2024, 08:03:46 AMI posted above about his 300+ yard games that season came against the two teams that gave up the most yards to EVERYONE in the league: Detroit and Minnesota, and they played Minny twice. In his other 15 games, he didn't even hit 250 yards passing.

So when you peel back the layers, no, what he did against Minny wasn't very impressive since just about every QB that faced that defense put up similar numbers. It's like a Par 4 golf hole. I'd give him a birdie on a normal difficulty hole. Everyone else birdied the hole as well.

Tim,

We can't ignore that DJ's support was just as bad as the Vikings defense was, so those factors offset.  To your analogy it's like making a birdie on that Par 4 hole while hitting off the tee with your putter.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 12, 2024, 08:40:32 AMLoud domes like the one the Vikings play in, make it much harder for the offense.  The advantage of the O-line knowing the snap count is lost, it's challenging for all the offensive players to hear the play calls.   QBs need to go to hand signals if they want to check out of a play.   There is a reason why teams that play in noisy stadiums tend to have much better home/away win ratios than the rest of the NFL teams.

An environment so formidable that they gave up 25 points per game at home. It's pretty clear that simply playing against a bad team mattered more there than anything else. If the opposing can't cover, even a mediocre NFL QB can look formidable.

And, again, I go back to the simple point that what Peterson said isn't exactly new. What he said is pretty much exactly what Todd McShay said about Jones 5 years ago.

Quote from: jgrangers2 on July 12, 2024, 09:59:10 AMAn environment so formidable that they gave up 25 points per game at home.

Yet the guy Patrick claims is not impressive scored 31 points (6 above the average) despite the no doubt louder playoff environment. DJ accomplished this while with likely the worst supporting cast of any quarterback they faced at home.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 12, 2024, 10:04:09 AMYet the guy Patrick claims is not impressive scored 31 points (6 above the average) despite the no doubt louder playoff environment. DJ accomplished this while with likely the worst supporting cast of any quarterback they faced at home.

That same guy has played in 60 games and has rarely looked like that. He doesn't make overly impressive throws and the inability to read a defense has been a knock on him literally since he was drafted. There's too much desperation to make the environment more important than the actual opponent in order to prop up one good game in a 5 year career. The 12th man doesn't magically turn a bad defense into a good one.

And, yet again, you're desperately avoiding Peterson's comments, which are basically what people have said about Jones for years.

First, the impetus of this thread appears to be nothing more than to generate conversation during offseason.  I'll bite and add more context:  Minn allowed 300+ passing yards in 11 of their 17 (65%) contests.  The NFLs 31st ranked passing defense allowed the following 300/400 yard passers:
 
Hurts
Bridgewater
Murray
Allen
Prescott/Cooper
Mac Jones
Mike White
Goff
Jones

NFL great passers Mac Jones, and Mike White generated 382 and 369 yards respectively.  Should we use their performances against Minn as evidence of their protentional?

To add even more context.  The Giants and DJ only generated more than 213 passing yards in 3 of 18 games.  They achieved those passing "milestones" against the NFL's 30th and 31st ranked defenses. 

Fans who failed to put DJ's performance against Minnesota (and 2022) into context, were widely inaccurate in their predictions for the 2023 Giants and Daniel Jones.

Peterson is only stating what I view as the obvious...

Quote from: kingm56 on July 12, 2024, 12:17:48 PMFirst, the impetus of this thread appears to be nothing more than to generate conversation during offseason.  I'll bite and add more context:  Minn allowed 300+ passing yards in 11 of their 17 (65%) contests.  The NFLs 31st ranked passing defense allowed the following 300/400 yard passers:
 
Hurts
Bridgewater
Murray
Allen
Prescott/Cooper
Mac Jones
Mike White
Goff
Jones

NFL great passers Mac Jones, and Mike White generated 382 and 369 yards respectively.  Should we use their performances against Minn as evidence of their protentional?

To add even more context.  The Giants and DJ only generated more than 213 passing yards in 3 of 18 games.  They achieved those passing "milestones" against the NFL's 30th and 31st ranked defenses. 

Fans who failed to put DJ's performance against Minnesota (and 2022) into context, were widely inaccurate in their predictions for the 2023 Giants and Daniel Jones.

Peterson is only stating what I view as the obvious...

This is a prime example of how not to use stats.   There is no differentiation of home and away.  There was no indication of the rankings of the QB support in terms of pass blocking and receivers.  Even the comment, "NFL great passers Mac Jones and Mike White," put nothing into context in terms of whether the team won, home/away, how the yardage compared to their average that season, and so on.   Remember, Mac Jones made the Pro Bowl before declining.   There was also a complete neglect of rushing yardage by the QB and how much support the QB got from their RB.

Then there was comments made that were not statistical in nature:

QuoteFans who failed to put DJ's performance against Minnesota (and 2022) into context, were widely inaccurate in their predictions for the 2023 Giants and Daniel Jones.

The fact of the matter is that no one predicted the meltdown.  The NFL scheduled tons of prime-time games, anticipating a better team.   Most predictions I remembered were qualified based on the O-line performance and Waller's contributions.   Then again, it seems most "fans" post here to talk about the Giants, while a few like to post to try and put other fans down.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 11, 2024, 05:07:46 PMRich,

Why do you think his only knowledge of Daniel Jones as a player is confined to the two games the Giants played against the Vikes in the 2022 reg season and playoffs? Are you of the opinion that Peterson, a longtime vet and great player, is completely oblivious of all other data on Daniel Jones' NFL career?

I understand that he mentioned that he played against him a couple of times, but I don't see why that means that's all he knows about him. In fact, I strongly think it is not all he knows about him.

Players on opposing teams openly mocked and laughed at Jones in season the week we played them. So it shouldn't be a surprise that other defensive players do the same. I mean we've seen the product on the field, we've got rookie no names throwing for more yards than Jones has ever in a season and still getting benched or that team drafting a new qb. I don't even know why the Jones conversation is even still a thing. Yes I'm rooting for the kid but there is no doubt in my mind it's his last year here.