Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Painter on July 14, 2024, 10:01:02 AMWhat you think, what you anticipate, what you expect matters. Certainly, it matters to you and, perhaps, to fellow Giants fans. But why embarrass yourself by playing pawn to media's self-serving interests? Do any of them actually care, one way or the other?

I'm not sure how others here feel but I am not, and never will be, comfortable playing link in some third-party's chain jerking game.

Cheers!

People post links here all the time. I do it occasionally (I don't start a lot of threads, and the majority of threads I do start don't have links and instead just ask a question and/or express an opinion).

But I don't view posting a link that might be of interest to x number of people here as "embarrassing myself." If you view it that way, that is of course perfectly fine, but I would argue yours is a small minority viewpoint here.

Further, it is unclear to me why you feel the need to complain about it and go after the person doing it. Seems a lot easier (not to mention more in line with general common courtesy) to just simply ignore the thread/person and move on to something you're more interested in. But that's just me.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 14, 2024, 11:12:07 AMPeople post links here all the time. I do it occasionally (I don't start a lot of threads, and the majority of threads I do start don't have links and instead just ask a question and/or express an opinion).

But I don't view posting a link that might be of interest to x number of people here as "embarrassing myself." If you view it that way, that is of course perfectly fine, but I would argue yours is a small minority viewpoint here.

Further, it is unclear to me why you feel the need to complain about it and go after the person doing it. Seems a lot easier (not to mention more in line with general common courtesy) to just simply ignore the thread/person and move on to something you're more interested in. But that's just me.

Jeff,

I have known Larry (Painter) for about 20 years now.  He likes to spend the 6 weeks of the NFL's quiet time criticizing posts made to keep the conversation going.  I honestly think he enjoys doing it.  While I used to argue with him, at this point I just accept that it's Larry being Larry and not take it personally.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 14, 2024, 11:14:57 AMJeff,

I have known Larry (Painter) for about 20 years now.  He likes to spend the 6 weeks of the NFL's quiet time criticizing posts made to keep the conversation going.  I honestly think he enjoys doing it.  While I used to argue with him, at this point I just accept that it's Larry being Larry and not take it personally.

I've looked at it a little deeper as it being not a criticism of you but, instead, the talking heads who get paid to deliver the same ... what's the word ... "drivel" ... I believe, it is, that when added up, is much ado about nothing.

Your analysis carries far more value and insight because you actually watch and analyze the Giants, write thoughtful posts about their condition and offer valid and well-prepared justification behind your statements. Further, the author in the Walter Football article appears to carry a mere basic ability to use the English language in writing his column. In contrast, your written word is more advanced, better organized and a great pleasure to read.

Even our English Professor Extraordinaire might throw a crumb in your general direction in agreement (not speaking for him, of course).

Peace!

Quote from: kartanoman on July 14, 2024, 12:24:04 PMI've looked at it a little deeper as it being not a criticism of you but, instead, the talking heads who get paid to deliver the same ... what's the word ... "drivel" ... I believe, it is, that when added up, is much ado about nothing.

Your analysis carries far more value and insight because you actually watch and analyze the Giants, write thoughtful posts about their condition and offer valid and well-prepared justification behind your statements. Further, the author in the Walter Football article appears to carry a mere basic ability to use the English language in writing his column. In contrast, your written word is more advanced, better organized and a great pleasure to read.

Even our English Professor Extraordinaire might throw a crumb in your general direction in agreement (not speaking for him, of course).

Peace!

It's funny, but I sort of give more credence to negative commentary. I figure that as a Giants fan, I have a natural homer instinct. So, I try to hear arguments that are contrary to the negative to combat that homer instinct.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 13, 2024, 10:43:25 AMFair enough Rich.

These horrible O line projections all seem to assume that Schmitz will remain terrible this year and that Neal is a confirmed bust. Both of those assumptions may well prove true, and they may even be the base case. I'm more convinced that Neal is a bust than I am that Schmitz is, although the degree to which Schmitz was bad last year, especially considering he is already 25 years old, is concerning to say the least.

One point made in the WalterFootball piece that I raised here a month or two ago and got a lot of pushback on was that Runyan may not be nearly as good as everyone thinks or hopes he will be. Green Bay is a smart and successful O line franchise, and they were content to let him go. Moreover his grades over multiple seasons (I know PFF isn't the be-all-end-all) simply aren't good. I get that his pass blocking grades are better than his run blocking grades, which I guess is a good thing at least for our QB, but I'm still not convinced this guy is going to be materially better than Glowinski or players of that caliber. The evidence that that will be the case is simply not convincing.

I do like Eleumenor though. I think he's a nice addition, and I like that he has already had success with our now current O line coach. Walter's comment that the Giants failed to get competition for Neal is misguided, in my opinion. Eleumenor is that competition, and I still feel that way even if he starts the season at guard. If Neal is once again dreadful, I think Eleumenor will be inserted at RT, perhaps pretty quickly. Walter seems to miss this in his piece.

Still, it's hard to make a strong case that this O line will suddenly be good, or even decent, and I agree that that is sobering. Of course, I also have my own concerns about Jones (in a vacuum) only being a middling starting NFL QB.

As a totally separate point, Walter was pretty rough on Deonte Banks. I feel he is selling him short, at least from the point of view that he was only a rookie last year, and rookie corners often struggle a bit and still end up being good players. I personally liked what I saw from Banks last year. Were there struggles and things to clean up? Absolutely. But I felt like I was watching a talented player who is more likely than not to blossom into at least a good, if not very good, NFL boundary corner.

Runyan stated he played through a variety of injuries last year and that led to his decline in play.


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Quote from: MightyGiants on July 14, 2024, 01:13:08 PMIt's funny, but I sort of give more credence to negative commentary. I figure that as a Giants fan, I have a natural homer instinct. So, I try to hear arguments that are contrary to the negative to combat that homer instinct.

Hi Rich.

I understand your point. It's good to hear different positions to include those which may run counter to your own. Then, ask yourself is it a difference in context, alignment of facts or perceptions or something which requires additional information?

You do a very good job in that regard and, in all the years I've known you on this board, your communication style has matured greatly from the standpoint of seeking to listen first. It's not an easy thing to do because the natural tendency is to want to put our two cents in right away. We all have a tendency to go on the defensive when being challenged and that's natural. Being able to interpret it as someone not attacking or challenging but establishing their own position and attempting to understand how your position claims to provide the "right answer," requires a specialized skillset that must be practiced and utilized regularly. Personally, I do not claim to be an expert in it but I do subscribe to it and use it in my work environment.

"Homer instinct," or "Giants' bias," if you will, must be harder if you are geographically closer to the team. I have always been a die-hard Giant fan. But I've been out of the NY Metropolitan area since 1983 so I don't feel that "homerism" you claim to feel. But whenever I've come back to visit the area, my inner soul recognizes my roots and, if it's Giants' season, I can definitely feel that "homerism" as you describe it. I will make one exception, though. Last season's game against the Cardinals, when I took the family to State Farm Stadium, in Glendale, AZ, and was completely surrounded by Giants' fans, I felt a serious case of "homerism" I haven't experienced in a long time. I was literally yelling to the Giants' fans around me (NOTE: most of them were my age, i.e. mid 50s, other in their 60s) to turn this place into Giants Stadium like the old days. They knew exactly what I was talking about and, in unison, you could hear us behind the Giants' bench get the rest of the Giants' fans in the stadium rocking. It was a delightful experience to watch during the second half comeback!

Anyway, just letting you know that I get it.

Peace!

Quote from: todge on July 14, 2024, 02:11:22 PMRunyan stated he played through a variety of injuries last year and that led to his decline in play.


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Ok, but his grades prior to 2023 indicate that he's just an ok but far from great overall offensive guard. Maybe the grades are wrong, or maybe a team that has done a vastly better job at O line roster development than we have for the past decade (the Packers) made a mistake with him that we capitalized on. Hopefully that's the case. We'll find out soon enough.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 14, 2024, 03:29:45 PMOk, but his grades prior to 2023 indicate that he's just an ok but far from great overall offensive guard. Maybe the grades are wrong, or maybe a team that has done a vastly better job at O line roster development than we have for the past decade (the Packers) made a mistake with him that we capitalized on. Hopefully that's the case. We'll find out soon enough.

Just OK would be a big improvement.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on July 14, 2024, 07:08:55 PMJust OK would be a big improvement.

Would you say Glowinski was less than "just ok"? Because his grades are mildly better than Runyan's over the years.

Hopefully PFF is as meaningless as some here say and hopefully Green Bay made a mistake in not wanting to pay Runyan.

Impossible io predict yet..but there are plenty of potential pitfalls. One thing..if the injury bug persists, it's going to be almost impossible to stay in contention..especially the OL.

But there's a ways to go. I'm not sure of anything now. Stay tuned..

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 14, 2024, 07:47:36 PMWould you say Glowinski was less than "just ok"? Because his grades are mildly better than Runyan's over the years.

Hopefully PFF is as meaningless as some here say and hopefully Green Bay made a mistake in not wanting to pay Runyan.

I don't have access to pff historical grades but Pro Football Reference assigns "Approximate Value" scores to every season.  Glowinski's scores for the 2 years with the Giants were 6, 2.  In Runyan's last three years, once he became a starter, his scores were 8, 9, 9. So i tkink it is reasonable to hope his "just Ok" will be a big improvement for the Giants.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GlowMa00.htm
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RunyJo00.htm

And here is their explanation of the Average Value method

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/about/approximate_value.htm

I've looked at these values both for current and historical players (they go back to 1960) and for the most part they seem pretty spot on.

Walter Football is usually pretty accurate

I remember they issued a pre-draft report on Barkley that he "disliked contact" and was a very reluctant pass blocker

We obviously did not see it or ignored it

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 14, 2024, 11:14:57 AMJeff,

I have known Larry (Painter) for about 20 years now.  He likes to spend the 6 weeks of the NFL's quiet time criticizing posts made to keep the conversation going.  I honestly think he enjoys doing it.  While I used to argue with him, at this point I just accept that it's Larry being Larry and not take it personally.

24 years to be exact, Rich. I suppose you may be right about it and, in any case, what you say is very kind. And certainly, I would never want YOU to take any of it personally. Your efforts here are of singular importance to us all. Much obliged.

Cheers!

Correction: As I now recall that having had lunch in NYC in 1999 with the agent for Giants 2nd Round (49th) pick, Joe Montgomery in 1999, followed by much subsequent discussion in BBWC, it would be more like the start of our year 26.

Quote from: Painter on July 15, 2024, 10:22:11 AM24 years to be exact, Rich. I suppose you may be right about it and, in any case, what you say is very kind. And certainly, I would never want YOU to take any of it personally. Your efforts here are of singular importance to us all. Much obliged.

Cheers!

Correction: As I now recall that having had lunch in NYC in 1999 with the agent for Giants 2nd Round (49th) pick, Joe Montgomery in 1999, followed by much subsequent discussion in BBWC, it would be more like the start of our year 26.

The agent for Joe Montgomery was truly talented.  I don't think many agents would have been able to fool a team like the Giants (at least, I hope that is the case) into drafting an RB who was damaged goods with a second-round pick.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 15, 2024, 03:20:23 PMThe agent for Joe Montgomery was truly talented.  I don't think many agents would have been able to fool a team like the Giants (at least, I hope that is the case) into drafting an RB who was damaged goods with a second-round pick.

I guess you might look at it that way, but after tearing every ligament in his right leg in 1996, Montgomery managed to come back and have a decent 1998 capped off by a media-dazzling performance in the East-West Shrine Bowl that won him that 2nd Round pick. But then as we know he couldn't stay healthy in his couple of years (8 games?) with the Giants. Fooled, yeah, Fools? I don't know. Did they do much better when they took Ron Dayne with their top pick in 2000? Fortunately, they had Atiim Kiambu Hakeem-Ah Barber to bail them out after that.

Cheers!