Big Blue Huddle

I enjoyed this episode but one thing stood out and I think it's only because they didn't want to show the evaluation phase for whatever reason. It all about filling a position and reallocation of funds to build a team. Nothing about why Drew Lock and what he potentially brings to the team, as one example. Filling the void of RB with Singletary, because the price was right. If there was no other thought process, it's a flawed process. There was however a different thought process with Burns. If they decided to pay Saquon, this deal doesn't get done. And there was no way they were paying a Safety boo koo bucks. So they get their Interior Linemen, and the pass rusher, while hoping the draft can solidify RB and Secondary.

I wish there were a way to watch this from Europe

When I attempt to sign up for MAX it blocked over here.   Anyone know a German work around?

I was able to watch session one on YouTube but that got scotched

Some of my thoughts:

I think it's safe to say the Giants offering Drew Lock to compete was a BS claim.   The Giants wanted to bring back Tyrod (their first choice).   Had the Jets not grabbed him, Lock wouldn't have even come to the team.

I found it troubling how Joe and the company seemed to be off (on the low side) with almost every eventual contract.   Team building is the ultimate strategy game.  It's hard to develop a winning strategy if you don't even know the costs.

Ronnie Barnes guest appearance.  I think that is a good example that shows no player gets into the building without Ronnie signing off on them (including Waller).

This is just a personal preference, but I am not thrilled at just how casual the atmosphere around Joe is.   I think there is some value in a certain degree of decorum and professionalism.   Think of Tom Coughlin and his theories, like having payers dress up when traveling.  If you have to conduct yourself like a professional in a place of business (rather than some guys hanging out at a clubhouse), I think there is a natural tendency to be more professional.

Again, I see Mike Lombardi's point.  The Giants are too small picture collecting talent.  I don't see Schoen and company expressing or working within the framework of a bigger picture of how they want the team built.

It's odd how Joe never uses his office phone.  Every call is on his cell.

Joe Schoen telling Barkley's agent that the decision may be above his pay grade is one I think will get some play as proof that Mara is meddling.

QuoteI wish there were a way to watch this from Europe

When I attempt to sign up for MAX it blocked over here.   Anyone know a German work around?

Use a VPN

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 17, 2024, 05:56:44 AMSome of my thoughts:

I think it's safe to say the Giants offering Drew Lock to compete was a BS claim.  The Giants wanted to bring back Tyrod (their first choice).  Had the Jets not grabbed him, Lock wouldn't have even come to the team.

I found it troubling how Joe and the company seemed to be off (on the low side) with almost every eventual contract.  Team building is the ultimate strategy game.  It's hard to develop a winning strategy if you don't even know the costs.

Ronnie Barnes guest appearance.  I think that is a good example that shows no player gets into the building without Ronnie signing off on them (including Waller).

This is just a personal preference, but I am not thrilled at just how casual the atmosphere around Joe is.  I think there is some value in a certain degree of decorum and professionalism.  Think of Tom Coughlin and his theories, like having payers dress up when traveling.  If you have to conduct yourself like a professional in a place of business (rather than some guys hanging out at a clubhouse), I think there is a natural tendency to be more professional.

Again, I see Mike Lombardi's point.  The Giants are too small picture collecting talent.  I don't see Schoen and company expressing or working within the framework of a bigger picture of how they want the team built.

It's odd how Joe never uses his office phone.  Every call is on his cell.

Joe Schoen telling Barkley's agent that the decision may be above his pay grade is one I think will get some play as proof that Mara is meddling.

The Cell phone thing doesn't bother me.  All of his contacts are there, everybody texts these days, it makes sense. 

Mara is definitely meddling although maybe not to the degree some of us thought.  He clearly wanted Barkley back and probably would have signed off on whatever the contract had to be to get that done, but Schoen was able to say no that contract is insane, we can use that money to sign 3 other guys rather than keep Barkley around when we've done absolutely no winning with him anyway.  That contract was pretty crazy and the McKinney contract equally crazy. 

So I'm not looking at it as they misjudged the market, I'm looking at it like they set a number they were willing to go to and once that number was soared past they were like that's fine they can have him. 

There's no way Lock was going to compete to be a starter. He's only going to be a starter if (when) Jones can't play.  I certainly hope they didn't tell HIM he'd have a chance to compete cause if so he'd likely be pretty pissed off right about now.

They did say at one point the plan was to build from the lines.  I think on a call with Daboll.  Their first two targets were OL because OBVIOUSLY that group needed an overhaul and then they used a ton of money and resources to get a premiere pass rusher to go with Dex and Kayvon.  The lines, in theory, should be the strengths of next year's team.  With "In theory" pulling an Evan Neal sized amount of weight there.

Quote from: BluesCruz on July 17, 2024, 04:28:42 AMI wish there were a way to watch this from Europe

When I attempt to sign up for MAX it blocked over here.   Anyone know a German work around?

I was able to watch session one on YouTube but that got scotched

I had to resort dubious means, sadly. Neither Sky Sports or Gamepass are carrying it.

Quote from: Gmo11 on July 17, 2024, 09:54:14 AMThe Cell phone thing doesn't bother me.  All of his contacts are there, everybody texts these days, it makes sense. 

Mara is definitely meddling although maybe not to the degree some of us thought.  He clearly wanted Barkley back and probably would have signed off on whatever the contract had to be to get that done, but Schoen was able to say no that contract is insane, we can use that money to sign 3 other guys rather than keep Barkley around when we've done absolutely no winning with him anyway.  That contract was pretty crazy and the McKinney contract equally crazy. 

So I'm not looking at it as they misjudged the market, I'm looking at it like they set a number they were willing to go to and once that number was soared past they were like that's fine they can have him. 

There's no way Lock was going to compete to be a starter. He's only going to be a starter if (when) Jones can't play.  I certainly hope they didn't tell HIM he'd have a chance to compete cause if so he'd likely be pretty pissed off right about now.

They did say at one point the plan was to build from the lines.  I think on a call with Daboll.  Their first two targets were OL because OBVIOUSLY that group needed an overhaul and then they used a ton of money and resources to get a premiere pass rusher to go with Dex and Kayvon.  The lines, in theory, should be the strengths of next year's team.  With "In theory" pulling an Evan Neal sized amount of weight there.

The cell phone doesn't bother me; it was just like someone who grew up with landlines; it's interesting to see that transition.  I will confess to making many of my own business calls via cell because I have their number in my phone.

The reason I say they misjudged the market was they were consistently low on estimated contracts.  It's like the Schoen was excited by the cap going up more than expected, but not realizing that the rising cap would boost the player's contract numbers

My non Saquon Barkley thoughts on #HardKnocks:
-- #Giants high level of interest in OG Robert Hunt is new info. Hunt signed (5 years, $100M) with #Panthers. Jon Runyan Jr. & Jermaine Eluemunor combined have less than that APY ($17M/year). Smart pivot, even though Schoen went $1M/year higher on both than he wanted.
-- Odd how confident Schoen and Daboll were in re-signing QB Tyrod Taylor. Sent an offer before free agency opened. But Taylor was very disheartened by how last season played out after his injury. I never thought he would re-sign. They clearly did.
-- I'm dying to know who sent Schoen the text that said "Philly is out" on Saquon.
-- Daboll seemed hesitant to commit to most things, even OL as their biggest need. Very aware of cameras. But Devin Singletary over D'Andre Swift at RB? That was Daboll's guy.
-- Coaches always tell media that sacks are an overrated stat. Pressure and disruption are better barometers. But Daboll asked the front office about Brian Burns, 'How productive is he in terms of sacks?'
-- Schoen wasn't sure that the Brian Burns trade would happen, even after losing Saquon. Man, that would've been a rough Day 1 of free agency. Especially since Plan B (Christian Wilkins) was already gone to Raiders by then. He did a really good job in waiting out and whittling down that trade negotiation.  (Loved how he let the phone ring a little before answering.)
-- "I need players, too," is a good admittance of where the roster is by Schoen.
-- The free-agent pitch to Drew Lock matches what #Giants and Lock said it is (history of getting backup QBs back on their feet like Mitch Trubisky and Tyrod), not what #Seahawks GM Jon Schneider and others made it seem (chance to start).

So far on HKs, I am under impressed with Dabs.  His opinions on talent and players is minimal.

Quote from: Philosophers on July 17, 2024, 12:21:27 PMSo far on HKs, I am under impressed with Dabs.  His opinions on talent and players is minimal.

Someone suggested that Daboll is being closed-mouthed because he is mindful he is on camera

Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
As promised, my thoughts on last night:

• The anniversary dinner was delightful.

• Saquon was telling the truth. The Giants never made an offer and his agent did give them a chance to match. I mentioned weeks ago about how reality TV shows are masters of the overly juicy preview clip. (That said next week's tease seemed unequivocal in Daboll's support of trading up for Daniels).

• Clear how rampant tampering is when Berry was able to give Schoen a highly accurate market price before the negotiating window opened.

• Those were some uneasy conversations between Mara and Schoen. Lot of nervous laughter from Schoen. I saw the debate yesterday about the Saquon decision putting Schoen on the hot seat. It's obviously not that simple. But it would be a big log on the fire if Saquon tears it up in Philly and the Giants offense stinks without him.

I think Schoen handled the Saquon situation correctly.  But that doesn't mean he'll be immune from scrutiny, especially from his skeptical boss, if he's not validated by results. I'm sure Schoen really wishes that text about Saquon going to the Bears was accurate.

• Obvious but Brian Burns really needs to deliver. Point got driven home about how much one move impacts others. They couldn't shop the top of the OL market (Hunt got $20M/year) or really make any other defensive additions in FA after committing to Burns.

Not a surprise, but Bowen confirmed Burns will play a "xxxx ton" of snaps. Interesting that Daboll asked about his sack production considering how much coaches tend to downplay the stat.

• Disappointed that we didn't get to see much of the Burns trade negotiations. We went from preliminary talks at the Senior Bowl/combine to finalizing very different details at the start of FA.

• Also disappointed by the lack of insight into McKinney's departure. He doesn't have Saquon's star power but his contract is worth $30M more. Would have liked to get some sense on what, if anything, the Giants even offered.

• Daboll emphasized the need for interior OL. Very little talk of Neal positively or negatively. Rossetti mentioned Eluemunor as the possible starting RT or LG. When Schoen listed the young core OL if they signed Runyan, he mentioned Thomas and JMS but not Neal.

Adding a third year for Runyan without upping the guarantees from the Jets' two-year offer is a win for the Giants. That additional year essentially serves as a team option.

Eluemunor negotiating was interesting, with him wanting a two-year deal and the team then wanting no guarantees in Year 2. They can get out pretty painlessly if they want to move on after this season.

• Surprised they seemed confident in re-signing Tyrod. I got the sense that he was ready to move on after how last season unfolded.

• This episode felt more like an edited TV show. I'm sure they had more targets than the handful featured. And it would have been more interesting to get to watch Abrams/Triggs negotiate rather than hear about it after, but I get why there would be issues with getting to show that.
9:56 AM · Jul 17, 2024
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Quote from: MightyGiants on July 17, 2024, 12:49:34 PMSomeone suggested that Daboll is being closed-mouthed because he is mindful he is on camera

Didn't he put music on for some meetings with JS as he knew HK wouldn't have the license to use it.

Sounds very savvy to me.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on July 17, 2024, 01:07:47 PMDidn't he put music on for some meetings with JS as he knew HK wouldn't have the license to use it.

Sounds very savvy to me.

He did but noticed that there was a scene with Schoen where he was playing Beyonce.  So if HK wanted the scene they could pony up the copyright $$$.

One thing that bothered me - a couple of hours before the start of free agency and Schoen tells his head coach - I don't know where you are (in terms of the priority of needs)

So many fans slammed Saquon, when the Giants never made the offer to at least match. Two years left on his career to make what is likely his last chance to provide for his family after football. The 26th highest-paid Eagle making less than Bradberry. The next three years his cap hit is 3.8 to 9.1 million and a lot of voided years. 26 Million guaranteed is basically a two-year deal but they could have done in three.

Joe Schoen didn't want to spend that money on that position. Especially an injury-prone player in a collision position. He knew what it was going to cost. Mara's concern was he was the most popular player on the team by far. He never meddled. Joe wanted JM as a partner if he was going to pay that high. When that call was made, he left it up to Joe. 

Btw, anyone involved in negotiations should know that in most situations you bid to stay in the game so that if you want the player, you can give your highest and best. Joe knew pretty much what these players might cost. The Eagles decided to pay it forward. Joe decided to make his future self grateful that he was cap responsible.