Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Philosophers on July 17, 2024, 12:21:27 PMSo far on HKs, I am under impressed with Dabs.  His opinions on talent and players is minimal.

Very regretfully, I am going to have to agree. His demeanor in these meetings, which I would call pretty serious if not pivotal meetings around forming this team's roster, seems passive and reserved at best. He looks half-asleep, slumped in a couch, barely mumbling single or two word answers to serious questions. If they were just hanging out BS'ing during down time, that would be one thing, but these are serious, important conversations.

I also was very surprised when Daboll had no real idea what the sack production (literally the most basic, headline metric there is for an edge rusher) was of Brian Burns, when the narrator had already told us the Giants had been flirting with the Panthers about bringing this player over for months. That's like not having any clue what the home run production is of a star power hitter.

Put yourself in Daboll's shoes for a moment. You're the head coach of the Giants. You haven't had to worry about preparing for a game since early January. We're now in April. Your GM has, according to the narrator of this show, for months been pondering making a huge trade for one of the premiere edge rushing stars in the sport. You're the head coach. Would you really not have looked into this player at all by that point?

I understand Daboll is an offensive-minded coach, but he's not the offensive coordinator. He is responsible for everyone.

And by the way, on a related subject, I wouldn't exactly say the new defensive coordinator comes off as a dynamic personality either. I'll reserve judgment of him at performing his job when I have enough data that I'm comfortable doing so, but I wouldn't exactly say he is blowing me away in this show as a first real impression.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 18, 2024, 06:08:23 PMVery regretfully, I am going to have to agree. His demeanor in these meetings, which I would call pretty serious if not pivotal meetings around forming this team's roster, seems passive and reserved at best. He looks half-asleep, slumped in a couch, barely mumbling single or two word answers to serious questions. If they were just hanging out BS'ing during down time, that would be one thing, but these are serious, important conversations.

I also was very surprised when Daboll had no real idea what the sack production (literally the most basic, headline metric there is for an edge rusher) was of Brian Burns, when the narrator had already told us the Giants had been flirting with the Panthers about bringing this player over for months. That's like not having any clue what the home run production is of a star power hitter.

Put yourself in Daboll's shoes for a moment. You're the head coach of the Giants. You haven't had to worry about preparing for a game since early January. We're now in April. Your GM has, according to the narrator of this show, for months been pondering making a huge trade for one of the premiere edge rushing stars in the sport. You're the head coach. Would you really not have looked into this player at all by that point?

I understand Daboll is an offensive-minded coach, but he's not the offensive coordinator. He is responsible for everyone.

And by the way, on a related subject, I wouldn't exactly say the new defensive coordinator comes off as a dynamic personality either. I'll reserve judgment of him at performing his job when I have enough data that I'm comfortable doing so, but I wouldn't exactly say he is blowing me away in this show as a first real impression.

He clearly doesn't want to be involved in this Hard Knocks production. He's got more important things on his mind and its a waste of time. That's HC mentality. The whole thing is staged and he hates it. Just read the body language.

Quote from: Ed Vette on July 18, 2024, 09:16:46 PMHe clearly doesn't want to be involved in this Hard Knocks production. He's got more important things on his mind and its a waste of time. That's HC mentality. The whole thing is staged and he hates it. Just read the body language.

It may indeed be true that he doesn't like having to be on Hard Knocks, and that may explain his sullen body language, but I'm not sure that explains why he would ask a question he really should have known the answer to when he asked it.

There is a type of nature show where they take a bunch of video, and then construct  a story, naming the animals and constructing storylines.  Examples are Meercat Manor, Dark Days in Monkey City, and Orangutan Island.  I get almost the same vibe from Hard Knocks.  By editing and commentary they can tell any story they want.  I find it far more entertaining than instructive.

What's the deal with Tim McDonnell by the way? I have never really heard this guy talk before this show, and obviously it is not fair or sensible to make big judgments about him based on such a small amount of data, but he seems pretty reserved and non-impactful. As Rich noted earlier, the way he decided to respond to Daboll's query about Burns' sack production (ie only tying it to the 2 or 3 other top edge rushers from his draft class and their receiving contracts as opposed to comparing to the league) was peculiar at best. He also seems a bit reluctant to take any sort of stand or give a strong opinion about much of anything in these meetings. Again, I appreciate the data set is small here, but these impressions are applicable to each episode we have seen.

I find this profile of his a little odd, given Mara, when attacked by the media after the 2021 season for the organization engaging in nepotism, stated that McDonnell was one of the most respected people in the building. If that is indeed the case, and given his supposedly robust scouting background, you'd think in 2024 he'd be a much more active participant in some of these discussions than what we have observed in each episode so far.

Maybe he's simply not a big talker and is more a guy who puts his views down on emails/memos, but his lack of presence and seemingly timid nature that we have seen in the meetings in these episodes has raised my eyebrows a little bit given how Mara publicly described him to the media.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 19, 2024, 02:27:50 PMWhat's the deal with Tim McDonnell by the way? I have never really heard this guy talk before this show, and obviously it is not fair or sensible to make big judgments about him based on such a small amount of data, but he seems pretty reserved and non-impactful. As Rich noted earlier, the way he decided to respond to Daboll's query about Burns' sack production (ie only tying it to the 2 or 3 other top edge rushers from his draft class and their receiving contracts as opposed to comparing to the league) was peculiar at best. He also seems a bit reluctant to take any sort of stand or give a strong opinion about much of anything in these meetings. Again, I appreciate the data set is small here, but these impressions are applicable to each episode we have seen.

I find this profile of his a little odd, given Mara, when attacked by the media after the 2021 season for the organization engaging in nepotism, stated that McDonnell was one of the most respected people in the building. If that is indeed the case, and given his supposedly robust scouting background, you'd think in 2024 he'd be a much more active participant in some of these discussions than what we have observed in each episode so far.

Maybe he's simply not a big talker and is more a guy who puts his views down on emails/memos, but his lack of presence and seemingly timid nature that we have seen in the meetings in these episodes has raised my eyebrows a little bit given how Mara publicly described him to the media.

And have we even SEEN Chris Mara, Senior Player Personnel Executive?

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 18, 2024, 07:03:04 AMOther than for optics, I have no idea why the Giants forced him to stay

I'm pretty sure this is still true.  If he gets a HC job, the Giants will get 2 3rd round compensation draft picks because one of his parents is a minority individual.  Also, they may like his contribution to the offense.  Daboll, in my opinion, is a better playcaller and I can see why he wants role.  But, Kafka has a good reputation and theres a good chance, he finds the HC next year.  Either way, he adds to the Giants and probably sees no upside to beton the show

Quote from: nb587 on July 20, 2024, 01:35:31 PMI'm pretty sure this is still true.  If he gets a HC job, the Giants will get 2 3rd round compensation draft picks because one of his parents is a minority individual.  Also, they may like his contribution to the offense.  Daboll, in my opinion, is a better playcaller and I can see why he wants role.  But, Kafka has a good reputation and theres a good chance, he finds the HC next year.  Either way, he adds to the Giants and probably sees no upside to beton the show

Hard Knocks decides the story to tell.   The Giants only could nix a segment.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 18, 2024, 06:08:23 PMVery regretfully, I am going to have to agree. His demeanor in these meetings, which I would call pretty serious if not pivotal meetings around forming this team's roster, seems passive and reserved at best. He looks half-asleep, slumped in a couch, barely mumbling single or two word answers to serious questions. If they were just hanging out BS'ing during down time, that would be one thing, but these are serious, important conversations.

I also was very surprised when Daboll had no real idea what the sack production (literally the most basic, headline metric there is for an edge rusher) was of Brian Burns, when the narrator had already told us the Giants had been flirting with the Panthers about bringing this player over for months. That's like not having any clue what the home run production is of a star power hitter.

Put yourself in Daboll's shoes for a moment. You're the head coach of the Giants. You haven't had to worry about preparing for a game since early January. We're now in April. Your GM has, according to the narrator of this show, for months been pondering making a huge trade for one of the premiere edge rushing stars in the sport. You're the head coach. Would you really not have looked into this player at all by that point?

I understand Daboll is an offensive-minded coach, but he's not the offensive coordinator. He is responsible for everyone.

And by the way, on a related subject, I wouldn't exactly say the new defensive coordinator comes off as a dynamic personality either. I'll reserve judgment of him at performing his job when I have enough data that I'm comfortable doing so, but I wouldn't exactly say he is blowing me away in this show as a first real impression.

Terrific post.  Can you imagine Parcells or BB being so uninvolved and quiet on players?  Dabs almost looks resigned to getting fired.  Like you wrote, 2-3 word replies or no knowledge on a olayer.  I mean come on.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 20, 2024, 01:39:37 PMHard Knocks decides the story to tell.   The Giants only could nix a segment.

Exactly.  And with hundreds of hours of raw video, editing and narration can tell any story they want to tell.  Which is why, although it is entertaining, I don't take any of the portrayals seriously.  Think about having multiple video crews following you around on your job and your life for weeks and then boiling it down to 5 42 minute segments.  They could make you look like a hero, a schmuck, or anything in between.

 This was my first chance to watch all 3 episodes of this show. I know you all are on the last show, but just a few thoughts.

It has been mentioned how 'casual' Dabs seems in all of this. I noticed in Schoen's office when they had a meeting with the staff, all sat around, but when Dabs was there, he settled on the couch puts his feet up on the coffee table, and just sat. Myself, I find that a bit too casual. Would anyone else go into their boss's office and put their feet up on his coffee table?

Throughout the 3 episodes and all the talk of improving the OL, I don't think Neal's name was even mentioned once.

My thoughts from this are that the Giants had no intention of signing Barkley unless they could get him cheap. Mara seemed like the only one who REALLY wanted him back.

I think Daboll is obsessed with the fact he finally got the job of his dreams but never got to pick his own QB.  He is sulking a bit

This will all pass when the opening kick off happens.  He is definitely a hands on sideline HC- much like Parcells was

Maybe Dabs is willing to agree on everything Schoen suggests.  I see no pushback from him.

Dabs did seem pretty sharp and on the ball in the combine interviews. He had a different posture in that setting than he did in the internal meetings we have seen.

I still just can't comprehend his being apparently clueless about Brian Burns' NFL production as recently as April when his GM had been talking to the Panthers' front office about trading for Burns for months prior to that. I find that remarkable.

Quote from: LennG on July 20, 2024, 07:53:40 PMThis was my first chance to watch all 3 episodes of this show. I know you all are on the last show, but just a few thoughts.

It has been mentioned how 'casual' Dabs seems in all of this. I noticed in Schoen's office when they had a meeting with the staff, all sat around, but when Dabs was there, he settled on the couch puts his feet up on the coffee table, and just sat. Myself, I find that a bit too casual. Would anyone else go into their boss's office and put their feet up on his coffee table?

Throughout the 3 episodes and all the talk of improving the OL, I don't think Neal's name was even mentioned once.

My thoughts from this are that the Giants had no intention of signing Barkley unless they could get him cheap. Mara seemed like the only one who REALLY wanted him back.

I get a sense from the 3 episodes to date that Daboll is not happy with Hard Knocks being there.  I suspect some of what we see and hear from his is a reaction to HK being there.