Big Blue Huddle

As I am still on crutches, I am not sure if I will be able to attend camp in person. Still there will be things I will be seeking to learn from camp.

1) Daniel Jones-  sadly there is little to learn from a veteran QB until the bullets are flying for real.  Still, he is recovering from his knee injury and how much running he does is something worth noting.

2) The offensive line-  Obviously all eyes will be on the line.  Disappointing picks Neal and JMS will be in focus, as well as the new veteran guards.

3)  The defense, it will be interesting to see how the defense does under new coordinator Shane Bowen.

4)  Injuries-  let us see if bringing back Strength and Conditioning coach Aaron Wellman pays dividends.

5) Differences with the offense under new play-caller Daboll

6) Tight End-  Will the rookie return quickly from his hip flexor?  Will Bellinger earn the starting job?  Who stays and who goes

7) Nabers and Nuben-  Both are highly touted rookies, do they live up to the hype

8) Position battles-  I have a thread covering the best position battles

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 20, 2024, 11:18:32 AMAs I am still on crutches, I am not sure if I will be able to attend camp in person. Still there will be things I will be seeking to learn from camp.

1) Daniel Jones-  sadly there is little to learn from a veteran QB until the bullets are flying for real.  Still, he is recovering from his knee injury and how much running he does is something worth noting.

Rich: Can't agree. I want him to look like he'll win every game this year BY HIMSELF (through the air). The kid gloves are off. No more waiting. No more ifs, ands or buts. Now is the hour. You get the picture. Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on July 20, 2024, 11:32:57 AMRich: Can't agree. I want him to look like he'll win every game this year BY HIMSELF (through the air). The kid gloves are off. No more waiting. No more ifs, ands or buts. Now is the hour. You get the picture. Bob

Bob,

I get what you are saying.  It's been my experience that most veteran QBs look good in camp and in their appearances in PS games (although, with DJ recovering, he might not play in a PS game).  Last year, DJ looked very good in camp and his brief PS appearance.  So, I am not putting much stock in DJ's performance looks good. Although, oddly enough, I will be concerned if DJ struggles.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 20, 2024, 11:36:52 AMBob,

I get what you are saying.  It's been my experience that most veteran QBs look good in camp and in their appearances in PS games (although, with DJ recovering, he might not play in a PS game).  Last year, DJ looked very good in camp and his brief PS appearance.  So, I am not putting much stock in DJ's performance looks good. Although, oddly enough, I will be concerned if DJ struggles.

If he struggles in the preseason, it will seen by most (and me) as the first step toward the door. Bob

I did not attend camp last year, but by all accounts (from members here who were in attendance, from beat reporters, from respected Giants YouTubers/Podcasters, etc), Jones apparently looked great in camp. He also looked very good in the one quarter or so he played in the Carolina preseason game. Subsequently, his 2023 season really could not have gone much worse than it did.

As a separate example, in the 2022 camp and preseason, Andrew Thomas looked undeniably bad (at least on multiple occasions), and then he had an amazing season.

I am not suggesting that any of the above indicates that how players look in camp and the preseason is irrelevant, but I'm not convinced it is a particularly strong guide of how their season will go, either.

Another thing I also think is that there is not a great deal of truly impartial reporting at this time of year. The vast majority of content that we as fans consume during this period is delivered to us from Giants fans, Giants (or Giants-dedicated) employees or booster types like Banks, Papa, Schmeelk, Dottino, etc, Giants beat reporters, who tend to err on the side of hopefulness, and YouTubers/Podcaster types who are Giants fans themselves and who cater specifically to Giants fans.

In short, Giants fans don't want to hear a lot of negativity at this time of year, even if it's not unfounded. And those who make a living or part of their living covering camp and the preseason understand this, and perhaps feel the same way themselves. They therefore endeavor to be as optimistic as they can without sounding ridiculous. So once camp starts you tend to see tweets, articles, forum posts, and videos that emphasize the good throws, the good catches, the positive quotes from coaches, the nice looking blocking in some O line drill, etc etc and not so much of the drops, the picks, the holding penalties, the errant throws, the missed tackles, etc. This is perfectly understandable given the time of year, but I do think it is something worth acknowledging as a contextual reality.

So while I will certainly observe coverage of the camp and will watch all of the preseason games, with the exception of injuries to likely roster spot recipients, I am not going to form or alter any real opinion on this team that I don't have already based on those observations. I have done this at times in the past, and I definitely did it a bit last year, and I'm just not going to do it again myself. That is what fall and winter are for.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 20, 2024, 02:36:22 PMI did not attend camp last year, but by all accounts (from members here who were in attendance, from beat reporters, from respected Giants YouTubers/Podcasters, etc), Jones apparently looked great in camp. He also looked very good in the one quarter or so he played in the Carolina preseason game. Subsequently, his 2023 season really could not have gone much worse than it did.

As a separate example, in the 2022 camp and preseason, Andrew Thomas looked undeniably bad (at least on multiple occasions), and then he had an amazing season.

I am not suggesting that any of the above indicates that how players look in camp and the preseason is irrelevant, but I'm not convinced it is a particularly strong guide of how their season will go, either.

Another thing I also think is that there is not a great deal of truly impartial reporting at this time of year. The vast majority of content that we as fans consume during this period is delivered to us from Giants fans, Giants (or Giants-dedicated) employees or booster types like Banks, Papa, Schmeelk, Dottino, etc, Giants beat reporters, who tend to err on the side of hopefulness, and YouTubers/Podcaster types who are Giants fans themselves and who cater specifically to Giants fans.

In short, Giants fans don't want to hear a lot of negativity at this time of year, even if it's not unfounded. And those who make a living or part of their living covering camp and the preseason understand this, and perhaps feel the same way themselves. They therefore endeavor to be as optimistic as they can without sounding ridiculous. So once camp starts you tend to see tweets, articles, forum posts, and videos that emphasize the good throws, the good catches, the positive quotes from coaches, the nice looking blocking in some O line drill, etc etc and not so much of the drops, the picks, the holding penalties, the errant throws, the missed tackles, etc. This is perfectly understandable given the time of year, but I do think it is something worth acknowledging as a contextual reality.

So while I will certainly observe coverage of the camp and will watch all of the preseason games, with the exception of injuries to likely roster spot recipients, I am not going to form or alter any real opinion on this team that I don't have already based on those observations. I have done this at times in the past, and I definitely did it a bit last year, and I'm just not going to do it again myself. That is what fall and winter are for.

As a long time veteran reporter of training camp, I am mindful of the training camp paradox.   Since the offense plays the defense, for every good play one side makes, the other side did poorly, and vice versa.   I think it takes skill and experience to glean the limited information we can from camp.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 20, 2024, 03:02:41 PMAs a long time veteran reporter of training camp, I am mindful of the training camp paradox.   Since the offense plays the defense, for every good play one side makes, the other side did poorly, and vice versa.   I think it takes skill and experience to glean the limited information we can from camp.

This is certainly true, and it is a good point, but there are also situations where a player on one side of the ball just straight up messes up, and it's not really to anyone's credit. I mean when the QB (any QB) drops back to pass in these scrimmage situations, nobody is going to hit him, and he is under no threat of being actually hit. So if he drops back and simply makes a poor throw, that's entirely on him and nobody on the D really deserves any credit for making any sort of good defensive play. You tend to almost never see stuff like this on the usual twitter accounts or on the Pappa/Banks shows that show camp footage. You tend to mainly see stuff that is impressive. At least that has been my experience.

I hope for the following:

1) a starting 5 OL identified and given the most reps and at the position they intend to play.  Want a unit to be formed quickly.

2) same as 1 above for starting WRs.  I want them to get lots of reps with DJ to build more familiarity.

3) I want the D to cause as much confusion in coverages and pass rushing as possible to give DJ plenty of live action.

4) if Neal is not healthy in camp remove him and insert JE to RT.

5) hoping Tracy emerges as starting RB for his versatility.

6) identify the starting IDL next to Dex

If the QB is faulty, nothing else matters. 
I have a feeling Lock or DeVito will be starting by mid season, so the battle between these two is meaningful

Here are my take on Daniel Jones. -

Positives
1- looks the part, at 6'5 and very fast, with a strong arm
2- has shown in the past he could make it to the playoffs- barely
3- has a determination and toughness that un-deniable
4- with a pocket he can deliver a reasonably accurate pass in a line drive fashion

Negatives

1- Has poor football instincts, looks robotic out there
2- crumbles when the rush is hot. Cannot sidestep regularly...and rarely throws it away
3- cannot pass on the run- runs on the run instead- takes off sometimes prematurely
4- Is not a verbal in your face leader- prefers to keep a grim face and lead by example
5- Came from a Basketball school and never faced top flight competition in college
6- often gives up early in his progressions and just dumps off
7- cannot throw long with air under the ball- prefers the over the middle line drives which means the receiver must be wide open.  will not chance a 50/50 ball for the most part. Thankfully we now have WRs who can get wide open.
8- New problem- the management team seems ready to move on without him- must be demoralizing to face that now documented fact- Hard Knocks.  He has the job by default not by earning it

He has a big hill to climb this year...We all hope he can silence his critics

He would really benefit from extensive pre season play but all factors (mostly injury related) considered probably the pre-season will be exclusively Tommy D and Drew Lock.  I dont recall anyone but Tommy and Tyrod playing pre-season last year