Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 22, 2024, 02:18:34 PMYou seemed to be minimizing Lamar's accomplishments with his arm in his MVP years. I was pushing back against that.

Saying that part of the reason Lamar earned his 2 MVPs was his rushing is not minimizing what he did with his arm.  Without the rushing component, it's highly doubtful Lamar would have received either MVP award

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 22, 2024, 02:06:12 PMHow does that remotely relate to my point about the value of QB rushing yards?

There's value to it, but Lamar was also 6th in the league in rushing yards with a 36:6 TD:INT ratio in his first MVP year. If your legs are going to make up for what your passing lacks, you pretty much have to be Lamar Jackson.

Quote from: jgrangers2 on July 22, 2024, 02:32:39 PMThere's value to it, but Lamar was also 6th in the league in rushing yards with a 36:6 TD:INT ratio in his first MVP year. If your legs are going to make up for what your passing lacks, you pretty much have to be Lamar Jackson.

What if your legs are making up for what your pass protection and receivers lack?

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 22, 2024, 02:21:04 PMSaying that part of the reason Lamar earned his 2 MVPs was his rushing is not minimizing what he did with his arm.

I thought I read you say that the MVP was "more due to his legs than arm", hence my comment that you appeared to be (relatively) minimizing the arm components of those seasons. I think his passing was a big component of both awards. Would he have won them on his passing alone if he were an immobile statue? Definitely not. But he wouldn't have won on legs alone with a middling or just "good" passing season either.

Bringing all of this back to the broad OP-driven point, just to reiterate, I fully acknowledge that Lamar is a significantly more talented player than Flacco is/was. That is abundantly obvious and needs no explanation. I was just suggesting that it is debatable which player we should put down as "greatest Ravens QB ever" in the summer of 2024.

These discussions really just come down to precisely how one defines "greatest ever" in this context. If we're going to give the Ravens' best QB honors to Jackson, I'd probably give the Bills' to Allen instead of Kellly, whom the 33rd team has. I mean Allen is more of a pure talent in my mind than Kelly was, and Kelly, despite being highly accomplished and certainly very good in his own right, never won a Super Bowl. With that said, I think Kelly deserves the citation over Allen right now, because he accomplished a lot more than Allen has to this point.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 22, 2024, 02:21:04 PMSaying that part of the reason Lamar earned his 2 MVPs was his rushing is not minimizing what he did with his arm.  Without the rushing component, it's highly doubtful Lamar would have received either MVP award

I think Jones at his best was with a play style similar to Lamar.  It's ironic that Waller pointed out DJ's potential because I think his signing represented the Giants seeing Jones as a different type of quarterback (Ceri flagged this early last season).  I would have rather the Giants had used that 3rd round pick to reinforce their strength of the 2022 season which was the running game and DL.  Dex and Barkley's snap count won them their playoff game but wore them out against Eagles and probably borrowed against their 2023 potential.  Bellinger was a true blend of a run blocker and reliable pass catcher until the eye injury, and he complemented the DJ/Barkley combo.  It wouldn't have costed much cap space to invest in a similar type of TE better and RB depth.  They won in 2022 by keeping games close with a run game, defense, and the occasional big play.       

I'm not sure after the hits Jones took last season and after the neck and ACL injuries he can run a 2022 style offense without Barkley.  Maybe with Nabers lined up he can keep pressure off the back field and Giants can get back to ball control offense since their defense can be special next season.  Individual stats don't look great in that type of system but with the current team configuration, it's the closest style of play that will get them back to winning.       

That would be nice, but I don't think it's in the cards. We've seen this rerun too many times. Jones always shows up working even harder, in even better shape, more committed than ever to helping the team succeed...

...But then those regular season Sundays come along and he's still a bottom 10 guy.

Quote from: y_so_blu on July 24, 2024, 01:55:04 PMThat would be nice, but I don't think it's in the cards. We've seen this rerun too many times. Jones always shows up working even harder, in even better shape, more committed than ever to helping the team succeed...

...But then those regular season Sundays come along and he's still a bottom 10 guy.

One thing we haven't seen is DJ with a true number one WR

Yes we need advice from Darren Waller

Good Grief!!

Quote from: BluesCruz on July 24, 2024, 02:16:25 PMYes we need advice from Darren Waller

Good Grief!!

Someone check my temperature.  I just gave a like to @BluesCruz .