Big Blue Huddle

My take on this series is that it's all scripted and acted out. I can't believe that these folks at HK were in the room for the real negotiations.

Quote from: Ed Vette on July 21, 2024, 10:56:40 AMMy take on this series is that it's all scripted and acted out. I can't believe that these folks at HK were in the room for the real negotiations.

Ed,

You should check out the Hard Knocks podcast.  Listening to the people who put the show together, I am very doubtful that things are as you say.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 21, 2024, 10:52:41 AMI get a sense from the 3 episodes to date that Daboll is not happy with Hard Knocks being there.  I suspect some of what we see and hear from his is a reaction to HK being there.

This is not an unreasonable take, albeit it is clearly a speculative one.

Even if Daboll is not thrilled with Hard Knocks filming them, why slum it in these meetings the way he is? What is the point of that exactly? What makes him feel so special versus all other coaches in the league who have had to be on this show that he feels entitled to act out in protest by displaying aloof, excessively casual and mopey body language in important meetings? How come we have not seen coaches like Sean McVay and Mike McCarthy, both of whom have had considerably more success than Daboll, behave anything like that when they had to do the show?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 21, 2024, 11:02:27 AMThis is not an unreasonable take, albeit it is clearly a speculative one.

Even if Daboll is not thrilled with Hard Knocks filming them, why slum it in these meetings the way he is? What is the point of that exactly? What makes him feel so special versus all other coaches in the league who have had to be on this show that he feels entitled to act out in protest by displaying aloof, excessively casual and mopey body language in important meetings? How come we have not seen coaches like Sean McVay and Mike McCarthy, both of whom have had considerably more success than Daboll, behave anything like that when they had to do the show?

Maybe because they HAD success they feel they can be a bit more natural. Dabs does come off as aloof maybe because he is under a microscope now and has nothing really to show anyone.
The others have a good to very good resumes and Dabs has basically nothing on his

Quote from: LennG on July 21, 2024, 12:37:55 PMMaybe because they HAD success they feel they can be a bit more natural. Dabs does come off as aloof maybe because he is under a microscope now and has nothing really to show anyone.
The others have a good to very good resumes and Dabs has basically nothing on his

An NFL head coach of the year award as a rookie head coach is more than "basically nothing", in my opinion.

He's also the only Giants coach to win a playoff game in a decade, although that's more a statement of how bad a team we have been than it is a huge accomplishment for Daboll.

Barkley has had his response to the episode.

According to The Atheltic " When Barkley sat down with his family this offseason to decide where he'd play in 2024, the Giants weren't even among the final three teams in his mind.

"The whole time, me and my agent were talking on our side, it was like, we don't think the Giants are even going to do anything,"

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5651393/2024/07/23/saquon-barkley-new-york-giants-hard-knocks-eagles/?source=user_shared_article

Trying to judge anyone off a reality tv programme is a fool's errand in truth as the act of filming changes the reality but it is also inevitable.

I am surprised Daboll did not realise that and see the opportunity to portray himself positively. As others have noted he seems barely engaged, slovenly and sullen. That does not put to bed questions over his maturity.

If I was Mara and Schoen I would be frustrated. If you want to lead people need to see you as a leader. I am sure with the players he is a very different animal but when he looks back on this Daboll should not be proud of how he has come across with his staff, front office and ownership.

Quote from: londonblue on July 23, 2024, 09:53:04 AMTrying to judge anyone off a reality tv programme is a fool's errand in truth as the act of filming changes the reality but it is also inevitable.

I am surprised Daboll did not realise that and see the opportunity to portray himself positively. As others have noted he seems barely engaged, slovenly and sullen. That does not put to bed questions over his maturity.

If I was Mara and Schoen I would be frustrated. If you want to lead people need to see you as a leader. I am sure with the players he is a very different animal but when he looks back on this Daboll should not be proud of how he has come across with his staff, front office and ownership.

That's the funny thing, Neal.  Most of the negative things that we have heard about Daboll seem to have been reinforced by the show.  You would think that after the whole Wink fiasco and so many coaches wanting to jump ship (like Kafka), he would have been wise enough to recognize an opportunity to improve his image.   As Coughlin learned the hard way, image matters for head coaches.

Quote from: londonblue on July 23, 2024, 09:53:04 AMTrying to judge anyone off a reality tv programme is a fool's errand in truth as the act of filming changes the reality but it is also inevitable.

I am surprised Daboll did not realise that and see the opportunity to portray himself positively. As others have noted he seems barely engaged, slovenly and sullen. That does not put to bed questions over his maturity.

If I was Mara and Schoen I would be frustrated. If you want to lead people need to see you as a leader. I am sure with the players he is a very different animal but when he looks back on this Daboll should not be proud of how he has come across with his staff, front office and ownership.

I look at it differently. I'm sure Daboll could give two sh*ts about how people outside of 1925 Giants Way view him. What matters most is if he has the respect and buy-in of his staff and players.

As a fan, all I care about are the product on the field and the results.

Quote from: T200 on July 23, 2024, 10:31:22 AMI look at it differently. I'm sure Daboll could give two sh*ts about how people outside of 1925 Giants Way view him. What matters most is if he has the respect and buy-in of his staff and players.

As a fan, all I care about are the product on the field and the results.

Tim,

Remember, Coughlin had a similar view.   In the end, he wasn't successful until he won over the media.  Now, admittedly, Coughlin also had to win over the players to a degree, but he still needed to put in a lot of work to get along.

Remember, the NFL coaches are seeing this, and they are seeing how their potential boss behaves (while already hearing some negative comments about him from former coaches who worked for him).

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 23, 2024, 10:34:28 AMTim,

Remember, Coughlin had a similar view.   In the end, he wasn't successful until he won over the media.  Now, admittedly, Coughlin also had to win over the players to a degree, but he still needed to put in a lot of work to get along.

Remember, the NFL coaches are seeing this, and they are seeing how their potential boss behaves (while already hearing some negative comments about him from former coaches who worked for him).

Equally, they'd look at the fact he was the Coach of the Year 2 years ago.

Granted, there's not much bloom left on that claim but right now it will curry a lot of favour.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on July 23, 2024, 10:35:48 AMEqually, they'd look at the fact he was the Coach of the Year 2 years ago.

Granted, there's not much bloom left on that claim but right now it will curry a lot of favour.

Do you think that matters to a potential assistant coach?  I would think job security (the coach on the hot seat), work environment (the coach is someone you want to work for), and the potential of the job to boost your career would be the big issues.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 23, 2024, 10:38:17 AMDo you think that matters to a potential assistant coach?  I would think job security (the coach on the hot seat), work environment (the coach is someone you want to work for), and the potential of the job to boost your career would be the big issues.

Honestly, I genuinely don't think it matters for two reasons:

1. Dabs survived the coup, the Giants let go of Wink when they easily could have gone in the opposite direction last year. If Dabs' behaviour was that big a deal, the Giants would have sacked him.
2. There's a finite amount of positions, they'll never struggle to fill them - I've read nothing to say that coaches turned down the opportunity to join the Giants over the course of the last six months?

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on July 23, 2024, 10:43:17 AMHonestly, I genuinely don't think it matters for two reasons:

1. Dabs survived the coup, the Giants let go of Wink when they easily could have gone in the opposite direction last year. If Dabs' behaviour was that big a deal, the Giants would have sacked him.
2. There's a finite amount of positions, they'll never struggle to fill them - I've read nothing to say that coaches turned down the opportunity to join the Giants over the course of the last six months?

1)  I think Dabs survived the coup based on a great rookie season and Mara's desire to end the coaching merry-go-round. 

2) I seriously doubt we will ever hear of a coach not wanting a job.   Teams reach out to a coach's agent.  If the coach is not interested, the agent will tell the team no.   The agent and the coach wouldn't want that refusal to be made public, and neither would the team that was refused.  So, there are no potential sources for a leak.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 23, 2024, 10:47:38 AM1)  I think Dabs survived the coup based on a great rookie season and Mara's desire to end the coaching merry-go-round. 

2) I seriously doubt we will ever hear of a coach not wanting a job.   Teams reach out to a coach's agent.  If the coach is not interested, the agent will tell the team no.   The agent and the coach wouldn't want that refusal to be made public, and neither would the team that was refused.  So, there are no potential sources for a leak.

That's equally valid way of looking at it.

I disagree and stand by the points I offered. Both are mere opinions.