Big Blue Huddle

How bad will Schoen look if any of Penix, McCarthy, or Nix become great QBs? Assume in this scenario that Nabers ends up being an excellent NFL receiver but Jones never plays materially better than he did in 2022.

I don't think so, because the teams that Penix and Mccarthy went to are significantly better offensively currently that you like can't do an apples to apples comparison.

Absolutely not.   You cant hold GMs accountable for every player they don't pick.   Even in the limited scope of the question, the odds are tripled with 3 picks.

I think he made the safe bet.   I really wanted a qb, but if Nabers is a true #1 1200 yard receiver, we are good.   I personally feel if Jones can't put up 4000 yards, we go all in to move up for a qb next draft. Pre loaded with a #1 WR

Only if Jones flops and that scenario with the others play out. From what I saw on Hard Knocks they were never seriously considering those QBs at six.

Dave Gettleman has taken a lot of heat for a lot for things that that went down during his four years as GM of the Giants. And rightfully so.

One thing that comes up a lot is not drafting Mika Parsons despite being able to. People have brought that up many times here in a critical if not scathing manner.

I have also heard him even get criticized for not drafting Justin Herbert, who wasn't even in the draft when we drafted Jones.

So if one of these three QBs turns out to be a star, and Jones flames out and isn't a Giant anymore a year from now, unless Schoen drafts a QB who is pretty much an instant success to replace Jones (or at least finds a very solid enough free agent to tide him over until he drafts someone), I think he's going to hear about it from the fans and media. Fair or unfair, that's just the way these things usually go.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 25, 2024, 06:55:53 PMDave Gettleman has taken a lot of heat for a lot for things that that went down during his four years as GM of the Giants. And rightfully so.

One thing that comes up a lot is not drafting Mika Parsons despite being able to. People have brought that up many times here in a critical if not scathing manner.

I have also heard him even get criticized for not drafting Justin Herbert, who wasn't even in the draft when we drafted Jones.

So if one of these three QBs turns out to be a star, and Jones flames out and isn't a Giant anymore a year from now, unless Schoen drafts a QB who is pretty much an instant success to replace Jones (or at least finds a very solid enough free agent to tide him over until he drafts someone), I think he's going to hear about it from the fans and media. Fair or unfair, that's just the way these things usually go.

How many times does the great QB lead his team to a Super Bowl victory? Do the Giants win any under Schoen?  If Nabers becomes a HOF receiver for the Giants, does it still matter what happens with those 3?

Only if they swing and miss on the next qb they draft.

Quote from: madbadger on July 25, 2024, 08:37:54 PMOnly if they swing and miss on the next qb they draft.

And even when they had the QB, the receivers, the TE AND RB-21, the GM was being ridiculed as the "Rug Doctor" (for his toupee) and his obsession for redeeming himself on his John Elway pick in 1983. The head coach was a drill sergeant about ready to be run out of town, the star DE was in pieces while his young replacement tackled Vince Young on 4th down in Nashville, then inexplicably let him go which turned a 21-0 Giant lead to a 21-24 loss.

And all it took was sending off superstar RB-21 to retirement, and this little play called "Catch XVII," and Ernie was the Rug Doctor no more! He even reissued his book, originally released in 2006, with a proverbial "take THAT, John Elway" chapter, and there was much rejoicing in Giantland where all problems went away, and they lived happily ever after ....

Uhhh ... happily ever after ...

Uhhh ... excuse me, there doesn't seem to be too many happy campers left. What happened?

Never mind, I'm going back under my tree and take another 10-15 year nap.

Zzzzzzzzz

If Jones fails them, that will define Schoen. Quite frankly, I think they should have traded down and picked Bo Nix who would be able to withstand the failures of this yet to be fixed Oline, and picked up another pick to build the team. I don't have the confidence in Lock or DeVito to lead this team when Jones gets hurt again. They didn't properly evaluate the QB class after the top three or four. Imo

Based on what I saw from Hard Knocks, I don't think Daboll was eager to take on a new QB unless it was one Daboll really felt good about.   As he said, lots and lots of failed first-round QBs (with the HC inevitably getting fired).   

It's sort of ironic.  Many of DJ's critics were critics from day one.  They accused Gettleman of drafting a QB just to draft a QB.  Yet, drafting one of the tier-two QBs would have been drafting a QB just to draft a QB.

I will credit the Giants for the smoke screen they put up about JJ. No doubt they were hoping that a team would trade ahead of the Giants to grab JJ, improving the chances of their desired pick, Nabers, being there for them at six.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 25, 2024, 05:08:48 PMHow bad will Schoen look if any of Penix, McCarthy, or Nix become great QBs? Assume in this scenario that Nabers ends up being an excellent NFL receiver but Jones never plays materially better than he did in 2022.

It will be brought up but I think it will be discussed more about the teams that picked Williams, Daniels, and Maye instead of one of the three you mentioned.

There's always going to be second-guessing. When it's time to pick, no one has that luxury. They make the best decision they can based on all of the information they have at that time.

If one of those QBs goes on to have a HOF career, Nabers has a good but not great tenure, and Jones is gone within a few years, it is inevitable that people will view that as a huge mistake in hindsight. 

When the years go by people will not be looking at what Jones was being paid this year or whether or not Nabers was the right pick.  They will see a team that had a QB that mostly struggled (will forget the surrounding cast by then) in 5 years and opted to pass on a future star QB. 

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 25, 2024, 05:08:48 PMHow bad will Schoen look if any of Penix, McCarthy, or Nix become great QBs? Assume in this scenario that Nabers ends up being an excellent NFL receiver but Jones never plays materially better than he did in 2022.

DB: I don't know about that, but IMO (as of draft day) the Giants had a starting QB under contract who was never afforded the "luxury" of having a solid WR group (or an elite WR), so I can't see anyone with no axe to grind honestly 2nd-guessing the decision to pick a WR. Bob

Quote from: uconnjack8 on July 26, 2024, 08:21:30 AMIf one of those QBs goes on to have a HOF career, Nabers has a good but not great tenure, and Jones is gone within a few years, it is inevitable that people will view that as a huge mistake in hindsight. 

When the years go by people will not be looking at what Jones was being paid this year or whether or not Nabers was the right pick.  They will see a team that had a QB that mostly struggled (will forget the surrounding cast by then) in 5 years and opted to pass on a future star QB. 

Sort of like in 2000 there were 31 bad GMs in the league when they all passed on Tom Brady for at least 5 rounds