Big Blue Huddle

https://x.com/rydunleavy/status/1816854968055292081

To be fair Peppers was pretty lousy with the Giants.  And the Browns for that matter.  Happy he found a system that can use him but I can't blame the Giants for letting him go.  McKinney's contract is too rich for their blood at this stage in the rebuild.  Love is the one I wish they could have found a way to keep but...such is life.

All that tells me is that Giants have been able to draft safeties that are good enough to get grossly overpaid in the market but weren't good enough for the front office to match. They're solid players but none of them were difference makers.

Quote from: madbadger on July 26, 2024, 12:02:23 PMAll that tells me is that Giants have been able to draft safeties that are good enough to get grossly overpaid in the market but weren't good enough for the front office to match. They're solid players but none of them were difference makers.

Fair point although safety is not an easy position to be a true difference maker at. How many safeties in the NFL right now would you call true "difference makers"? I'd be surprised if there are more than perhaps three or four at any one time.

If our safeties sub-perform here but dob well elsewhere then that is about poor player selection, poor player vs scheme or poor player development.  That is not on the player.

Quote from: Gmo11 on July 26, 2024, 11:33:32 AMTo be fair Peppers was pretty lousy with the Giants.  And the Browns for that matter.  Happy he found a system that can use him but I can't blame the Giants for letting him go.  McKinney's contract is too rich for their blood at this stage in the rebuild.  Love is the one I wish they could have found a way to keep but...such is life.

Gm: You and others complain a lot about the Giants. I almost never do, but I have a complaint now.

First, and I know I'm in the minority, but I never really liked Love (his run defense was IMO subpar).

Regardless, if Giants had no intention of signing McKinney and knew it when Love was ready to leave, they should have signed Love (who IMO was willing to take a bit less than his actual value).

Bob

Quote from: Gmo11 on July 26, 2024, 11:33:32 AMTo be fair Peppers was pretty lousy with the Giants.  And the Browns for that matter.  Happy he found a system that can use him but I can't blame the Giants for letting him go.  McKinney's contract is too rich for their blood at this stage in the rebuild.  Love is the one I wish they could have found a way to keep but...such is life.

I dont remember Peppers being lousy.

Quote from: Bob In PA on July 26, 2024, 02:35:24 PMGm: You and others complain a lot about the Giants. I almost never do, but I have a complaint now.

First, and I know I'm in the minority, but I never really liked Love (his run defense was IMO subpar).

Regardless, if Giants had no intention of signing McKinney and knew it when Love was ready to leave, they should have signed Love (who IMO was willing to take a bit less than his actual value).

Bob

If the Giants had no intention of signing McKinney they should have traded him at the deadline.  Same with Barkley.  IMO.

I think the Giants would havr signed McKinney for the right price. Packers just offered way more than expected.  It'll be interesting yo see if his play matches the contract.

Schoen very clearly believes in positonal value and has said so many times.

QB - LT - DE - CB are the premium positions.

then you've got

WR1 - rest of OL - DL - 3 down MIKE

by the time you get to

RB - TE - S, you are pretty far down the rung.

We should be happy - let someone else overpay S's. For a team that is shaky in the trenches still, they had no business paying S's big contracts. Say what you will about Schoen, he has a team building philosophy and he sticks to it. You could argue they shouldn't've drafted Nubin in the 2nd round, but they wanted Kool Aid. At some point you have to take the BPA.

Quote from: Philosophers on July 26, 2024, 06:40:34 PMI dont remember Peppers being lousy.

Then we watched a different Peppers.  He couldn't cover anybody at any time in any area.  The only usefulness he provided was when they were forced to play him at LB due to a ridiculous amount of injuries. 

Quote from: Philosophers on July 26, 2024, 06:40:34 PMI dont remember Peppers being lousy.

His pff scores with the Giants were two years in the mid 60s and then in the mid 60s and as fell to 58.7 in his final year with the Giants.  His scores then rose to 75 and 87.3 once he left and went to the Pats.

Peppers was OK here, but far from irreplaceable, he wasn't bad, but he wasn't a world beater either.

McKinney is very good and young, but character concerns, and the price tag, IMHO make letting him go a smart move. Good but not for the combo of headaches and the amount of money he ended up getting. Maybe we get a comp pick from him.

Love however, was very solid for us, played well, always gave a ton of effort and was a high character guy. Stayed healthy too. He is the only one of these I was not OK losing.

Whereas players like Linval Joseph, Dalvin Tomlinson, etc that we kept losing, seemingly to the Vikings every time, those guys all should have been retained. We also got fleeced for BJ Hill who I always felt was underrated, Billy Price worked so well for us.

The Giants formula at Safety

Let drafted talent walk away after 4 years for nothing
Then force rookies and 2nd year player into starting roles
Those players struggle and the fans complain
They finally mature in their walk season
Then they are too expensive to keep and the cycle continues
Why should we be happy when we have 2 winning seasons the past decade?

Quote from: 4 Aces on July 29, 2024, 06:11:02 PMFor a team that is shaky in the trenches still, they had no business paying S's big contracts.

Aces: You boiled it right down to the nub there. Bob