Big Blue Huddle

https://x.com/art_stapleton/status/1817160106053640666?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ


I know it's easy to pile on Daniel Jones after the first three practices. But let's put this into perspective: Jones tore his ACL in November. Day 1 of camp was his first action in 11/11 since then + he has not missed a first team rep so far in camp. Eight months!

Yeah, he's missed some throws. He's hit some, too.

Jones spent time after practice with Malik Nabers yesterday. He's obviously trying to sync up his timing to the real speed against 11/11.

And Brian Daboll knows it, which is why the Giants are not doing any 7/7 in camp. Jones needs the reps in full team drills.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 27, 2024, 06:29:32 AMGuys,

Jones just had his first 3 days of 11 on 11 in nearly a year.  Do you think you might be jumping the gun a bit in terms of your reactions?  I appreciate Bobby and Justin are all over Daniel Jones.  I also appreciate that while training camp is fun to attend it's fun to get those first glimpses of the team.  It's still just that, a glimpse.

That said, when the throws count, DJ needs to hit that throw to WonDale.  There are only a handful of plays every game that make or break, and a wide-open WR deep is one of them.

Rich and @kartanoman: In addition to the issues you've raised, I want to say...

Although Skinner and Penik do a top-notch job analyzing line play (which is really all about technique in NFL) there are a lot more things to consider when watching skill players during practice.

Skill guys have a lot more to work on (that's why they get paid a lot more than linemen). So while observations of commentators are valid, legit and accurate, it's far less clear what the skill players are working on (or concentrating on) at practice and during preseason games, so IMO the observations should be heard/received in that context. Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 27, 2024, 06:29:32 AMGuys,

Jones just had his first 3 days of 11 on 11 in nearly a year.  Do you think you might be jumping the gun a bit in terms of your reactions?  I appreciate Bobby and Justin are all over Daniel Jones.  I also appreciate that while training camp is fun to attend it's fun to get those first glimpses of the team.  It's still just that, a glimpse.

That said, when the throws count, DJ needs to hit that throw to WonDale.  There are only a handful of plays every game that make or break, and a wide-open WR deep is one of them.

I hear you Rich, and I totally agree in principle. As I've said before I'm not a big believer in training camp performance having a great deal of predictive value of how one will look in the regular season that year.

That said, when Jones plays badly in the regular season the narrative from many is often that he wasn't protected. Since he can't be touched in camp, that narrative can't apply, and it's really just a matter of him being able to make throws that are on target and don't get picked. He doesn't have to worry about getting hit.

So while I agree three days of camp are pretty irrelevant (and if my understanding is accurate he was only bad in two of them), I'd feel better if he started to play little better than this when things are this easy for him.

You often hear people say "give any NFL QB time and he can pick any defense apart." Effectively, that is what he has been given in these types of camp situations. So I'd like to see something closer to the above from him than him throwing it all over the place and right into defenders' hands, which is what seems to be going on so far.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 27, 2024, 08:29:37 AMI hear you Rich, and I totally agree in principle. As I've said before I'm not a big believer in training camp performance having a great deal of predictive value of how one will look in the regular season that year.

That said, when Jones plays badly in the regular season the narrative from many is often that he wasn't protected. Since he can't be touched in camp, that narrative can't apply, and it's really just a matter of him being able to make throws that are on target and don't get picked. He doesn't have to worry about getting hit.

So while I agree three days of camp are pretty irrelevant (and if my understanding is accurate he was only bad in two of them), I'd feel better if he started to play little better than this when things are this easy for him.

You often hear people say "give any NFL QB time and he can pick any defense apart." Effectively, that is what he has been given in these types of camp situations. So I'd like to see something closer to the above from him than him throwing it all over the place and right into defenders' hands, which is what seems to be going on so far.

DB: I think it's fair to complain about a QB's lack of accuracy and other technical stuff in analyzing his play at practice, but when talking about anything that involves his interaction with other skill players, it's necessary to be careful to include the possibility that someone else made a mistake which caused the QB to look bad. Bob

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 27, 2024, 08:29:37 AMI hear you Rich, and I totally agree in principle. As I've said before I'm not a big believer in training camp performance having a great deal of predictive value of how one will look in the regular season that year.

That said, when Jones plays badly in the regular season the narrative from many is often that he wasn't protected. Since he can't be touched in camp, that narrative can't apply, and it's really just a matter of him being able to make throws that are on target and don't get picked. He doesn't have to worry about getting hit.

So while I agree three days of camp are pretty irrelevant (and if my understanding is accurate he was only bad in two of them), I'd feel better if he started to play little better than this when things are this easy for him.

You often hear people say "give any NFL QB time and he can pick any defense apart." Effectively, that is what he has been given in these types of camp situations. So I'd like to see something closer to the above from him than him throwing it all over the place and right into defenders' hands, which is what seems to be going on so far.

Jeff,


The first two days they did red zone.  Yesterday was the first time they were working deep.  I have been attending training camp since back when the Giants were playing at Pace University.  QBs always have misses in camp.  If QBs played their best in practice, especially early practice, they wouldn't need to practice.

Quote from: Bob In PA on July 27, 2024, 08:38:45 AMDB: I think it's fair to complain about a QB's lack of accuracy and other technical stuff in analyzing his play at practice, but when talking about anything that involves his interaction with other skill players, it's necessary to be careful to include the possibility that someone else made a mistake which caused the QB to look bad. Bob

Bob, 


Early in camp, defenses almost always lead the offense.  Offenses require coordination which takes time to develop

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 27, 2024, 08:40:09 AMJeff,


The first two days they did red zone.  Yesterday was the first time they were working deep.  I have been attending training camp since back when the Giants were playing at Pace University.  QBs always have misses in camp.  If QBs played their best in practice, especially early practice, they wouldn't need to practice.

Fair enough Rich. I agree two are three days are not meaningful. I expect him to start looking better soon.

If we're having this same conversation a week from now (which to be clear I highly doubt we will be), I'll be a bit less comfortable then. I have to imagine the coaches will be too.

Quote from: spiderblue43 on July 26, 2024, 06:38:53 PMKart,

Just relaying what they saw. True, he maybe be still recovering in his fundamentals,that's fair. But this has nothing to do with his wrs-he's not looked good. Has to pick it up if this offense is to get out of the doldrums.

I agree with you in that he must pick it up with each passing day. One practice, one review of the film, take notes, make adjustments, review next practice agenda, rinse and repeat.

If there are fundamental flaws that put a limit on his game, and the Giants' offense, and those are on full display in all the practices, then yes, it represents an issue.

In case you, and everyone else missed my point of Joe Montana and "12 inches in front of the receiver," I was referring to a clip from the program "A Football Life" on the late Bill Walsh and how his meticulous coaching and driving his points home through obsessive repetition, at times, made Joe Montana what he became. That segment in the program reminded me of all of us here getting on Danny Dimes' case.

It took Joe Montana a while before he hit his receiver in stride; the ball landing 12 inches in front of the receiver so he could catch it in full stride. Ironically, Joe and Jerry Rice did it to perfection in 1988, Week #2, in Giants Stadium, to shock the Giants, and all of us as well.

Peace!

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 27, 2024, 07:32:52 AMhttps://x.com/art_stapleton/status/1817160106053640666?s=46&t=1vcQIN8GqF5J2oLdxEVEJQ


I know it's easy to pile on Daniel Jones after the first three practices. But let's put this into perspective: Jones tore his ACL in November. Day 1 of camp was his first action in 11/11 since then + he has not missed a first team rep so far in camp. Eight months!

Yeah, he's missed some throws. He's hit some, too.

Jones spent time after practice with Malik Nabers yesterday. He's obviously trying to sync up his timing to the real speed against 11/11.

And Brian Daboll knows it, which is why the Giants are not doing any 7/7 in camp. Jones needs the reps in full team drills.

One of the most encouraging things, for me, is that Daboll seems to have learned from last year's pre-season and is running a very different camp.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on July 27, 2024, 12:00:04 PMOne of the most encouraging things, for me, is that Daboll seems to have learned from last year's pre-season and is running a very different camp.

Good point, lots of 11 on 11 and very little 7 on 7

https://x.com/BobbySkinner_/status/1817557818959929449

https://x.com/TalkinGiants/status/1817557729981907364

https://x.com/MattCitak/status/1817556895650951619

https://x.com/Connor_J_Hughes/status/1817558358653563045

https://x.com/DDuggan21/status/1817558723016941658

People, even smart football people, see what they want to see based on what they are looking at. The focus is on Jones and he missed some deep throws in preseason camp. So what? Has any pundit raised an eyebrow that WRs are consistently running free behind our defense? No. They see what they want to see. Banks has a bad day and they say is is showing some rust and learning and adjusting to Nabors. Apparently Jones is supposed to be locked in on Boykin and Nabors 40-50 yards downfield but the CBs and safeties are getting a pass. Nabors calls his own numbers and catches a deep ball and he is a "dog". Who threw the pass I wonder?

Its been 3 days. Deep breaths everyone. Deep breaths.

confirmation bias, people's tendency to process information by looking for, or interpreting, information that is consistent with their existing beliefs. This biased approach to decision making is largely unintentional, and it results in a person ignoring information that is inconsistent with their beliefs.