Big Blue Huddle

I am reading the new book by Tom Coughlin.  He was talking about Tom Brady and the 2007 Super Bowl.   The quote was- "... there's not a quarterback alive whose performance doesn't suffer when they are hit hard and hit often"


It's remarkable how many people believe that shouldn't apply to Daniel Jones last season.

Another quote-  "Brady's as tough as they come, but if you knock any quarterback down repeatedly, he starts to wear down and expect it, and when a quarterback is looking for where the next hit is coming from, that throws off everything."

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 27, 2024, 10:45:01 AMI am reading the new book by Tom Coughlin.  He was talking about Tom Brady and the 2007 Super Bowl.   The quote was- "... there's not a quarterback alive whose performance doesn't suffer when they are hit hard and hit often"


It's remarkable how many people believe that shouldn't apply to Daniel Jones last season.

Another quote-  "Brady's as tough as they come, but if you knock any quarterback down repeatedly, he starts to wear down and expect it, and when a quarterback is looking for where the next hit is coming from, that throws off everything."

Glad you picked it up, Rich @MightyGiants! I'm reading the back half of it this morning with my coffee and plan to start "The League" as soon as I finish "A Giant Win."

Peace!

I don't think anyone here thinks O line play doesn't matter. I certainly don't. Our line was bad last year and it impacted the play of all three of our QBs who played last year.

Did some handle it better than others? To me that's the discussion point. Not whether it mattered at all or not. To claim "many people" think O line play doesn't matter is a false narrative.

Quote from: kartanoman on July 27, 2024, 11:10:38 AMGlad you picked it up, Rich @MightyGiants! I'm reading the back half of it this morning with my coffee and plan to start "The League" as soon as I finish "A Giant Win."

Peace!

Chris, thanks for the recommendation.  I have to confess, the description of the book didn't entice me.   I bought because of you.  I am enjoying this book as much as Tom's first two books.

It's not getting hit makes a QB's body feel better or his mind feels good.  He hurts and wears down physically and mentally.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 27, 2024, 11:19:43 AMI don't think anyone here thinks O line play doesn't matter. I certainly don't. Our line was bad last year and it impacted the play of all three of our QBs who played last year.

Did some handle it better than others? To me that's the discussion point. Not whether it mattered at all or not. To claim "many people" think O line play doesn't matter is a false narrative.

IMO the ones that handle it better are the ones with strong receiver corps.  No QB can thrive with an historically bad OL and a weak group of receivers.  THAT'S how a QB goes from being a marginal top ten QB to a bottom 3. 

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 27, 2024, 11:19:43 AMI don't think anyone here thinks O line play doesn't matter. I certainly don't. Our line was bad last year and it impacted the play of all three of our QBs who played last year.

Did some handle it better than others? To me that's the discussion point. Not whether it mattered at all or not. To claim "many people" think O line play doesn't matter is a false narrative.

No one had it worse than Jones.  The line started to improve by the time others took over.

QuoteNot whether it mattered at all or not. To claim "many people" think O line play doesn't matter is a false narrative.

If I had a dollar for every time for every time I saw people rip DJ a new one for 2023 without qualify it with the terrible conditions he endured in terms of hits, sacks, and fast pressure, I could be inviting all of you to my luxury Giants box.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 27, 2024, 10:45:01 AMI am reading the new book by Tom Coughlin.  He was talking about Tom Brady and the 2007 Super Bowl.   The quote was- "... there's not a quarterback alive whose performance doesn't suffer when they are hit hard and hit often"


It's remarkable how many people believe that shouldn't apply to Daniel Jones last season.

Another quote-  "Brady's as tough as they come, but if you knock any quarterback down repeatedly, he starts to wear down and expect it, and when a quarterback is looking for where the next hit is coming from, that throws off everything."

Mighty,

And that is after only one game, imagine if Brady had been hit like that for a full 16 game schedule? What would his stats be?

Well, they've thrown resources at the line in terms of personnel and change of coach.

Let's hope we get to see the real version of Jones in September.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on July 27, 2024, 12:44:43 PMWell, they've thrown resources at the line in terms of personnel and change of coach.

Let's hope we get to see the real version of Jones in September.

Schoen commented during the last Hard Knocks episode.  To paraphrase, he essentially said they had improved the offensive line some.  Considering how historically bad the O-line was, I was hoping for something along the lines of significant improvement or a major upgrade.  This team couldn't afford incremental improvement.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on July 27, 2024, 12:35:25 PMMighty,

And that is after only one game, imagine if Brady had been hit like that for a full 16 game schedule? What would his stats be?

And what the Giants did to Brady pales to what Jones endured in 2023.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on July 27, 2024, 12:48:17 PMAnd what the Giants did to Brady pales to what Jones endured in 2023.

Compare just one game, Brady's Super Bowl and DJ's game one against Dallas

Using PFF stats

Brady in the Super Bowl

5 sacks 7 hits 16 hurries  total 28

DJ against Dallas

7 sacks 6 hits 24 hurries total 37

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 27, 2024, 12:20:05 PMNo one had it worse than Jones.  The line started to improve by the time others took over..

Just so I'm sure I am clear:

The narrative you are proposing above is that this terrible line that everyone has complained about for a decade and that was historically bad last year was in fact, suddenly and very mysteriously, a totally different, materially improved line the second Jones wasn't the one playing behind them, correct?

In other words, the better QB play once Jones was hurt had nothing to do with the other QBs themselves. It was all because the same linemen who failed Jones miserably suddenly and completely out of the blue performed better for other QBs on the same team. And that is the reason why their numbers were considerably better.

Do I have that right?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 27, 2024, 03:31:43 PMJust so I'm sure I am clear:

The narrative you are proposing above is that this terrible line that everyone has complained about for a decade and that was historically bad last year was in fact, suddenly and very mysteriously, a totally different, materially improved line the second Jones wasn't the one playing behind them, correct?

In other words, the better QB play once Jones was hurt had nothing to do with the other QBs themselves. It was all because the same linemen who failed Jones miserably suddenly and completely out of the blue performed better for other QBs on the same team. And that is the reason why their numbers were considerably better.

Do I have that right?

Jeff, I appreciate you want to blame Jones, but stats don't lie.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 27, 2024, 11:19:43 AMI don't think anyone here thinks O line play doesn't matter. I certainly don't. Our line was bad last year and it impacted the play of all three of our QBs who played last year.

Did some handle it better than others? To me that's the discussion point. Not whether it mattered at all or not. To claim "many people" think O line play doesn't matter is a false narrative.

Yes it is. But if anyone is still inclined to defend Daniel Jones' play at this point, and repeatedly make unnecessary topics in order to do so... false narratives are really all that's left.