Big Blue Huddle

Amid Daniel Jones' early struggles, Giants can't be afraid to give reps to Drew Lock
Jones has been missing his targets at an alarming rate during practice

https://sny.tv/articles/giants-daniel-jones-drew-lock-7-30-24

It's not like Lock is lighting it up.   I think this article is premature (after a couple of PS games and joint practices if DJ still looks as bad, then I would be willing to go for it.

I think it's premature too. In fact I wouldn't even agree with it two weeks from now if he continues to struggle.

I think Jones should start week one (assuming he's healthy) pretty much no matter what. And I am quite confident he will. Lock has had his fair share of snaps in the NFL, and despite anyone's view of Jones, Lock has not been as good as Jones. Nor has he been on this team for the amount of time Jones has.

Now... if Jones goes out and plays in the first 5-6 weeks the way he played last season, and the team is 1-5 or something, then I think it would be reasonable to discuss making a starting QB change. And they might if they're in that position, which would pretty much be the final nail in the coffin for Jones' tenure as a Giant. But since there is no strong real game evidence at all that Lock is actually a better QB than Jones, I would not start messing with everyone's head by having Lock work with the 1s just because Jones had a bad couple of weeks. The only way I would do that is if they have determined Jones' struggles are health related, which is not what has been reported to my knowledge.

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 30, 2024, 03:11:53 PMAmid Daniel Jones' early struggles, Giants can't be afraid to give reps to Drew Lock
Jones has been missing his targets at an alarming rate during practice

https://sny.tv/articles/giants-daniel-jones-drew-lock-7-30-24

It's not like Lock is lighting it up.   I think this article is premature (after a couple of PS games and joint practices if DJ still looks as bad, then I would be willing to go for it.

Rich: Furthermore, Lock's reads are even slower than Jones' are.  This observation is based on all videos available so far.  The only qualification I'd make is that I may not be aware of absolutely everywhere one can view videos of practice (but I believe I am). Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on July 30, 2024, 03:11:53 PMAmid Daniel Jones' early struggles, Giants can't be afraid to give reps to Drew Lock
Jones has been missing his targets at an alarming rate during practice

https://sny.tv/articles/giants-daniel-jones-drew-lock-7-30-24

It's not like Lock is lighting it up.   I think this article is premature (after a couple of PS games and joint practices if DJ still looks as bad, then I would be willing to go for it.

I'm not so sure it's premature. Jones has been inconsistent his first five years in the league. IMHO He should be on a very short leash. Even with skilled receivers he is struggling to deliver. It's a problem.

Quote from: madbadger on July 30, 2024, 03:42:33 PMI'm not so sure it's premature. Jones has been inconsistent his first five years in the league. IMHO He should be on a very short leash. Even with skilled receivers he is struggling to deliver. It's a problem.

madb: Whether it's too early or not, it's not unfair to get on him now. The time for excuses is about to end.

I don't care that he's coming off a serious knee, nor do I care that he's [fill in the blank].

I think a guy who is in his now-or-never year should APPEAR to be playing like it's his now-or-never year. I am willing to goes easy until he plays in games that count, of course, but I'm no longer giving him a "100% free pass" for stuff that happens at practice or during the preseason.

Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on July 30, 2024, 04:11:31 PMmadb: Whether it's "too early or not, it's IMO not unfair. The time for excuses is about to end.

I don't care that he's coming off a serious knee, nor do I care that he's [fill in the blank].

I think a guy who is in his now-or-never year should APPEAR to be playing in his now-or-never year. I am willing to wait until he plays in games that count, of course, but I'm no longer giving him a "100% free pass" for stuff that happens at practice or during the preseason.

Bob

Do you wait to care until your car's engine blows up, or do you take notice when the check engine light comes on?

A six year veteran quarterback with 60 starts shouldn't be missing wide open receivers consistently in practice. It won't get easier in preseason games when there's live pressure.

Keep Lock to the side. We either sink or swim on Jones so it leaves no doubt what we do in 2025.

Hughes was a Jets fan and their beat writer initially. Over the years, Jets fans will seize any opportunity to dump on the Giants. I would take this article with a grain of salt.


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This just isn't how NFL teams operate.

They're a lot more like corporations than they seem on the surface.

All NFL teams have their planned #1 QB. Think of the starting QB as a C-Suite in a large organization. He's been paid a large salary and given significant responsibility, both on and off the field. Early arrival, events, fund-raisers, photoshoots - the whole 9.

The planned starting QB is going to get all the reps with the starters to best prepare. It's the direction they'll sail in. The backup QB will take the reps with the 2's, the #3 with 3's and so forth. There's really no competition for the various jobs, and no real opportunity to overtake them. They'll stick with the plan. If DeVito lights it up with the #3's, that's all it is.

Only if the planned QB falters conclusively in real games, over and over again, will they make a switch. At that point the backup QB (Lock in our scenario) will be given the opportunity.

That's how it works. There's not some intense Rocky/Apollo Creed open competition for the starting job. No NFL team wants that. There's a planned, deliberate course of action that starts with the salary being paid. 

Quote from: madbadger on July 30, 2024, 06:32:02 PMDo you wait to care until your car's engine blows up, or do you take notice when the check engine light comes on?

A six year veteran quarterback with 60 starts shouldn't be missing wide open receivers consistently in practice. It won't get easier in preseason games when there's live pressure.

A 6-year veteran with 60 Starts doesn't magically transform into a different player.  Last year, we witnessed the other end of the spectrum; specially, camp goers and reporters were raving about DJ...to the point they were predicting his ascension to the upper tier of QBs.  I'll repeat what I said last year, which is to say what happens in camp rarely carries into the regular season.  I don't care if DJ misses 75% of his deep throws, nor do I care if he connects on 75% of deep passes.  History has shown that once the season starts, veteran players are who we thought they were. 

Quote from: madbadger on July 30, 2024, 03:42:33 PMI'm not so sure it's premature. Jones has been inconsistent his first five years in the league. IMHO He should be on a very short leash. Even with skilled receivers he is struggling to deliver. It's a problem.

Mad,

I don't disagree at all about Jones in general. My base case is that he won't be a Giant after 2024. I just don't believe Lock is better, and I personally wouldn't let one bad week of camp change my mind about that given the years of data we have on both players.

However, I'd be totally fine with giving Lock a try after a reasonable number of weeks (maybe 5?) if Jones plays poorly again this year and the team is losing again.

Quote from: kingm56 on July 30, 2024, 07:25:12 PMA 6-year veteran with 60 Starts doesn't magically transform into a different player.  Last year, we witnessed the other end of the spectrum; specially, camp goers and reporters were raving about DJ...to the point they were predicting his ascension to the upper tier of QBs.  I'll repeat what I said last year, which is to say what happens in camp rarely carries into the regular season.  I don't care if DJ misses 75% of his deep throws, nor do I care if he connects on 75% of deep passes.  History has shown that once the season starts, veteran players are who we thought they were.

I think DJ's issue isn't that he has to "transform." There is certainly plenty on tape that shows DJ can perform at an NFL franchise quarterback level. DJ's issue is being consistent. He needs to reduce the number of bad throws and plays and increase the number of positive plays.

So DJ doesn't have to "magically transform"; he needs to improve.   While such improvement is far from certain, it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility.  There certainly have been QBs who have improved even later in their career (and few QBs, and none who have been successful, have had as bad of a support structure in their entire career as DJ)

Wow. I've seen some tape of Jones...and he looks godawful in camp. Having Dave Brown flashbacks...and that's real bad.

If this keeps going...bad..we're in serious trouble. 

I would hope they're not afraid to give him reps, as he's almost certainly going to start at some point this season.

Quote from: spiderblue43 on July 31, 2024, 01:38:44 PMWow. I've seen some tape of Jones...and he looks godawful in camp. Having Dave Brown flashbacks...and that's real bad.

If this keeps going...bad..we're in serious trouble. 

Hey , go easy on my boy!