Big Blue Huddle

The Giants lost two stars and gained two stars.   Early indications are that Burns and Nabers will have a much bigger impact on the Giants' defense and offense than McKinney and Barkely had.   So even though one could argue the losses and the gains offset, I would argue the Giants had a net positive.

Completely agree.  The guys replacing Safety and RB respectively I think can get relatively close to the previous level of production if not quite as high.  Nabers and Burns each should, and we won't know until the games are real, but they SHOULD provide a significant boost in production to the guys they are taking over for.  If the choice was making the Burns trade/contract or Barkley and they could only have one...they made the correct choice.

Also completely agree.  As proof, ask yourself, would you trade Burns and Nabors straight up for Barkley and McKinny?  Even with money aside, I wouldn't.  We also desperately needed more help at WR than we did at RB and we all know how important a pass rush is.

I would have liked all four or 3 of 4 with Barkley and our new OL.

Quote from: Philosophers on August 07, 2024, 08:34:21 AMI would have liked all four or 3 of 4 with Barkley and our new OL.

While I framed this discussion in terms of either or not, I really think if Schoen had hit on some of his O-line picks, the team would have had the money to keep either Barkley or McKinney.  Instead, that money was used to bring in veteran O-line

I agree, money is being spent better on these guys

A second contract on a RB and a safety while young amd talented, the character issues turned me off personally on McKinney.

While I am able to overlook that, having Burns who to my knowledge isn't a character concern is better for them as a whole all things considered, the pass rush should help everyone in the secondary

I look at in terms of replacement parts Rich. Nabors can prove to be a huge asset. We are seeing snapshots of the Oline improvement so it gives time for DJ to get the ball to him. He frees up Jalin and WDR and Slay.

The pass rush will be much improved. I don't see an improvement in the Run Defense.

It remains to be seen if any of the Safeties can replace McK. Certainly not in the run defense or tackling. It remains to be seen if the Giants can offset the loss of Barkley. I do think that one of the RB's will emerge and surprise.

Injuries will be another key. The loss of a Receiver won't kill the squad. The loss of a pass rusher will. Both Barkley and McK lost significant time.

Right now, I can't say either way.

Theoretically, that must be a correct statement, assuming you agree that throwing the ball on offense and pressuring the QB on defense are the two most important aspects of today's game. Bob

Quote from: MightyGiants on August 07, 2024, 07:42:32 AMThe Giants lost two stars and gained two stars.   Early indications are that Burns and Nabers will have a much bigger impact on the Giants' defense and offense than McKinney and Barkely had.   So even though one could argue the losses and the gains offset, I would argue the Giants had a net positive.

I agree with the loss/gain premise but, at this point, it's hard to predict the impact given that the performance of the team's 20+ others will surely be key element.

Cheers!

I agree- a star edge will always be more important than a star safety and a star WR in today's NFL is most definitely more impactful than a star RB.  Especially since the WR is a rookie.

Will they end up being stars, though?  God I hope so!!!

Quote from: PSUBeirut on August 07, 2024, 10:21:47 AMI agree- a star edge will always be more important than a star safety and a star WR in today's NFL is most definitely more impactful than a star RB.  Especially since the WR is a rookie.

Will they end up being stars, though?  God I hope so!!!

Burns is already a star, hopefully Nabers will be in time.

How many times did Barkley touch the ball? How many targets do you expect Nabers to get?

Quote from: Giant Jim on August 07, 2024, 10:32:18 AMHow many times did Barkley touch the ball? How many targets do you expect Nabers to get?

Even when Nabers isn't targeted, he will impact coverage.  He is also likely to keep safeties from cheating up to the LOS on runs (for fear of being beaten deep)

Quote from: MightyGiants on August 07, 2024, 10:37:22 AMEven when Nabers isn't targeted, he will impact coverage.  He is always likely to keep safeties from cheating up to the LOS on runs (for fear of being beaten deep)

Absolutely.  It's what was missed most when OBJ left.  The defense will HAVE to pay attention to whatever Nabers is doing.  Which means Wandale and Hyatt and even Theo are going to be getting 1 on 1 matchups regularly.  I like the Giants chances of one of those guys being open more often than not when they are given that situation.  Whether the OL can hold up long enough to get a pass off and whether Jones is skilled enough to get it there remains to be seen but I do think we're going to see our WRs win a lot of battles this season which is a nice change of pace.

If the 2 pairs are comparable in performance level we will have substituted 2 guys in low impact, low value positions with 2 guys in high impact, high value, positions.

I'll also note that the guys we lost missed a lot of games due to injury.  McK lost 19 games in 4 years and SB lost 24 games in 6 years.  While we don't yet know how Nabers will fare, Burns missed 3 games in 5 years.