Big Blue Huddle

https://x.com/BigBlueVCR/status/1823494750030455189

Good conversation between two very competent people. It was nice to be reminded just how good Frank was with a mike in his hand. As for the money in the major sports, the only difference in its absurdity today is in the 50+, 25+, and 12+ Roster sizes.

Cheers!

I think the thing that struck me is it appears George Young and Parcells would go at each other in the media.   It's funny how Mara talks about how he is happy that his head coach and GM get along.   Yet, he witnessed the reality that if the two men involved are supremely talented, getting along is optional.

Was Young the vice president at that time? I thought Tim Mara was.

Quote from: MightyGiants on August 14, 2024, 12:45:19 PMI think the thing that struck me is it appears George Young and Parcells would go at each other in the media.   It's funny how Mara talks about how he is happy that his head coach and GM get along.   Yet, he witnessed the reality that if the two men involved are supremely talented, getting along is optional.

That was then this is now. The world has changed and I'm not sure the Parcells/Young way of doing things would be sustainable nowadays - unfortunately.

Quote from: Giant Jim on August 14, 2024, 01:21:48 PMWas Young the vice president at that time? I thought Tim Mara was.

Young was the GM.  I am not sure if Tim Mara was associated with the Giants during that era or what his title was

President – Wellington Mara
General Manager – George Young
Director of pro personnel – Tim Rooney
Head Coach - Bill Parcells

That's it, no Veep or anyone else at the top.

Cheers!

Quote from: Painter on August 14, 2024, 02:23:52 PMPresident – Wellington Mara
General Manager – George Young
Director of pro personnel – Tim Rooney
Head Coach - Bill Parcells

That's it, no Veep or anyone else at the top.

Cheers!

Tim Mara was the VP until he sold his half to Tisch after the 2nd super bowl. Where did that info come from?

George Young and Bill Parcels---Two ver "A" type personalities. Neither ever wanted to give an inch.

L'est we forget, shortly after our 1986 Super Bowl victory it was strongly rumored that Parcells and the atlanta Falcons were very interested in each other.
Maybe it was a contract money ploy but I always felt Young and Parcells had a deep animosity for each other, probably going back to Young wanting Parcells replaced after 1983 with his old buddy Howard Schnellenburger, who was fresh off winning a national championship with the Miami Hurricanes.

Quote from: Giant Obsession on August 15, 2024, 04:14:08 PML'est we forget, shortly after our 1986 Super Bowl victory it was strongly rumored that Parcells and the atlanta Falcons were very interested in each other.
Maybe it was a contract money ploy but I always felt Young and Parcells had a deep animosity for each other, probably going back to Young wanting Parcells replaced after 1983 with his old buddy Howard Schnellenburger, who was fresh off winning a national championship with the Miami Hurricanes.

Then there was Young's hiring of Fassel. Mara wanted Parcells back, Young offered the job to Fassel knowing Mara wanted Bill, and then disappeared for a few days. At that point Mara didn't want to step in. If I were Mara Young would have been summarily fired, Parcells would have been rehired, and Fassel would have gotten a sorry Jim note. That's insubordination. Young thought Fassel could make something out of Brown. Weeeeeee
When I learned this a few years ago it pissed me off. 

Quote from: files58 on August 15, 2024, 04:48:13 PMThen there was Young's hiring of Fassel. Mara wanted Parcells back, Young offered the job to Fassel knowing Mara wanted Bill, and then disappeared for a few days. At that point Mara didn't want to step in. If I were Mara Young would have been summarily fired, Parcells would have been rehired, and Fassel would have gotten a sorry Jim note. That's insubordination. Young thought Fassel could make something out of Brown. Weeeeeee
When I learned this a few years ago it pissed me off. 

Wellington was still sitting back as per the agreements from the winter of '78 at that time even tho Tim was gone. Young's hiring came with the agreement that he would have full control. It was probably the only time Wellington would've been right. He already stuck his nose in to push Young to hire Dan Reeves, who Young didn't want and that didn't work out.

Quote from: Giant Obsession on August 15, 2024, 04:14:08 PML'est we forget, shortly after our 1986 Super Bowl victory it was strongly rumored that Parcells and the atlanta Falcons were very interested in each other.
Maybe it was a contract money ploy but I always felt Young and Parcells had a deep animosity for each other, probably going back to Young wanting Parcells replaced after 1983 with his old buddy Howard Schnellenburger, who was fresh off winning a national championship with the Miami Hurricanes.

You betcha the rumors of the Giants' considering the availability of Howard Schnellenberger (NOTE: he wasn't interested in the job) got to Parcells and he became very concerned about what was becoming, in his mind, a tenuous situation.

In Parcells' 1987 autobiography "Parcells, Autobiography of the Biggest Giant of Them All," this was the lowest point in his life. He'd lost both his parents in 1983 and now his dream job of head coaching his favorite NFL club was imploding in front of him because he was not being himself. He had never taken control of the situation.

During this tough time, Parcells had two individuals who were his confidents: one inside the organization and one outside. Obviously, the one inside was Timothy Mara who was closer in age to Parcells than Wellington and George Young. But the one on the outside would have upset the Giant old-guard brass if they truly knew. It was Raiders' owner, Al Davis. Parcells admired Davis from afar and conjured the courage to call him up, one day, which was much to the surprise (and inevitably delight) of the renegade owner of the NFL.

After Parcells shared the rumors with Davis, the Raiders' owner was only too happy to give the fledgling coach a helping hand to prop up his career while, in parallel, embarrass individuals in the Giants' front office as a jab in the spirit of the old AFL-NFL war.

So, during an upcoming CBS "The NFL Today" pre-game show, it was none other than Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder who was handed a piece of information "from a reliable source" that reported the Giants were attempting to court Howard Schnellenberger which could spell the end of Parcells despite the fact he inherited issues that were core to the operations of the football club, such as the Simms/Brunner quartback controversy, bad drafting and full slate of injured starters.

Al Davis had slayed the NFL flagship franchise and the Giant organization had to walk back any notion that Parcells' job was in jeopardy. Howard immediately rejected the notion of coaching the Giants or any NFL team (NOTE: indeed, after finishing at Miami in 1983, he took a year off and returned to college coaching, but at Louisville, in 1985).

Parcells survived the disastrous 3-12-1 1983 season and vowed, going forward, he would do everything HIS way.

We can analyze his behavior, his insecurities and all. But if you have ever experienced anything similar to what Parcells experienced in 1983, I can imagine he has to be grateful to Tim Mara and Al Davis for being there to confide in when he needed a sounding wall. We all need that when going through hard times. In spite of any initial ill will from going through the experience, Parcells learned to work within the Giants' system and developed a core group of players who got behind him and led the charge to a championship in 1986. It gave him enough confidence to test the Giants' brass by threatening to consider taking Atlanta's job. But then the perfect storm with the 1987 NFL strike, the Giants' Super Bowl hangover with many more injuries to deal with than the previous season (NOTE: not an uncommon occurrence with the shortened off-season) and every team just playing them harder, and maybe that desire to win in 1986 just wasn't there in 1987. It definitely takes a toll.

But despite his grumbling to want to coach AND take on a greater role in player selection, Parcells displayed the very best of his head coaching years in the 1988-90 time frame as the Giants retooled for one last run at a Super Bowl with that core group that started the gauntlet in 1984. When Parcells was carried off the field as a Super Bowl XXV champion, little did everyone know that would be his final game as a Giant. Contract negotiation stalling in the off-season, Tim Mara, his sister and his mother selling their 50% holdings in the franchise, with Tim retiring and, in 1995, passing away from Hodgkin's Disease. With Bill Belichick moving on to take the Browns' head coaching position, and Parcells' learning about his heart condition, he stepped down in May 1991 not long after the draft. Whether the timing was intentional, as the final jab to George Young, has been debated for a long time. Publicly, Parcells has always claimed his medical condition made it a necessity to step down. The one thing Parcells can be credited for is that he NEVER spoke a negative word about George Young after leaving the Giants. Perhaps the closest was acknowledging his wishes to be a coach and GM but, at the Giants, Young was the GM and he was the head coach and that was that. He was cordial and respectful of Young. In later years, he has reflected on everything in terms of what they, collectively, accomplished and there is gratefulness for how it turned out in the end.

Wellington Mara, George Young and Bill Parcells are all in the Hall of Fame today. That, in and of itself, should say it all about how they managed to work together to return the NFL's flagship franchise to the forefront of the National Football League.

From the skies looking down, Al Davis with Mara and Young by his side watching, I can imagine all three of them smiling as "The Tuna" took his rightful place in Canton back in 2013. The war is no more. Their feisty Jersey Guy made it big.

Peace!