Big Blue Huddle

He should file another discrimimation lawsuit. 

1 - I'm failing to see how this kills the case against the Giants (or anyone) related to discrimination.  I don't think that occurred with the Giants, nor do I think much of his charges in general other than the directive to tank the season, but I don't think this hamstrings his case. 

2 - Overall mixed feelings about what Tua is saying.  Theres clearly been a departure from "old school" football mentality where everything was earned and disparaging a player/tough love was par for the course.  You could argue it was wrong in the first place.  You could argue it was effective for a LOT of coaches, including Parcells.  You could also argue that players today are too sensitive to criticism and while Tua might feel better with his current coach, whether or not his coach gets maximum production from him or wins a Superbowl remains to be seen.  I get the impression the truth is somewhere in the middle.  Players today should toughen up and coaches probably stray into destructive behavior sometimes when belittling a player. 

Quote from: zephirus on August 22, 2024, 12:44:11 PM1 - I'm failing to see how this kills the case against the Giants (or anyone) related to discrimination.  I don't think that occurred with the Giants, nor do I think much of his charges in general other than the directive to tank the season, but I don't think this hamstrings his case.   

It hamstrings his case because he's claiming that the Giants didn't hire him because of his race but now any jury is going to hear how he abusive he to his quarterback which directly impacted his teams performance. Giants can say that they weren't interested in hiring a coach with a track record of being abusive to his players regardless of skin color.

A Good coach should know what works
With Parcells he was master at this
But with a master he would understand
Who needs tough love
Who needs love you
If you can't tell the difference then you don't deserve to be a coach
Now that was years ago and maybe he learned better

Flores sure took the high road in the response

Quote from: madbadger on August 22, 2024, 12:54:59 PMIt hamstrings his case because he's claiming that the Giants didn't hire him because of his race but now any jury is going to hear how he abusive he to his quarterback which directly impacted his teams performance. Giants can say that they weren't interested in hiring a coach with a track record of being abusive to his players regardless of skin color.

Given that Tua just made these claims they aren't admissible.  If someone divulged to the Giants during the process that they thought he was an abusive coach and should steer clear, they can rely on that.  But you can't use info that comes to light years later that ostensibly the Giants were not aware of.

Quote from: zephirus on August 22, 2024, 03:37:53 PMGiven that Tua just made these claims they aren't admissible.  If someone divulged to the Giants during the process that they thought he was an abusive coach and should steer clear, they can rely on that.  But you can't use info that comes to light years later that ostensibly the Giants were not aware of.

It was fairly well known at the time that Flores hated Tua. If you remember he tried desperately to convince the front office to trade for Deshaun Watson. When the front office refused he decided that Tua was going to be his whipping boy. There was a reason why the Dolphins fired him despite the fact that he had two successive winning seasons after a total tear down and rebuild.

What ever happened to the claims Flores made that Dolphins owner Stephen Ross directly offered to compensate Flores extra for losing games on purpose? That was a serious accusation. Was it determined that Flores completely made those stories up out of thin air?

For me, it all comes down to the above. The Tua stuff is a side-story relative to that. If Flores made up the stuff about Ross bribing him to throw games, then I will agree with any claim that he is a "terrible person."

If however he was telling the truth there and his unwillingness to play ball and lose on purpose got him fired, and he just wasn't able to come up with a smoking gun that that happened, then he has every right to be bitter, and we should be talking about Stephen Ross' character, not Flores'.

The snowflake stuff with Tua pales in comparison to the above in importance, as far as I am concerned. The above is much more important and much more of a deciding factor as to the character of this man than whether he yelled at Tua or wasn't always a teddy bear with him.

Tua's comments have nothing to do with Flores's lawsuit against the NFL.

Also, coaches say stuff like that to players all the time. It sounds like Flores never wanted Tua as his QB which is legitimate. Maybe unpleasant for Tua to hear, but that's the NFL.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on August 22, 2024, 09:08:08 PMWhat ever happened to the claims Flores made that Dolphins owner Stephen Ross directly offered to compensate Flores extra for losing games on purpose? That was a serious accusation. Was it determined that Flores completely made those stories up out of thin air?

For me, it all comes down to the above. The Tua stuff is a side-story relative to that. If Flores made up the stuff about Ross bribing him to throw games, then I will agree with any claim that he is a "terrible person."

If however he was telling the truth there and his unwillingness to play ball and lose on purpose got him fired, and he just wasn't able to come up with a smoking gun that that happened, then he has every right to be bitter, and we should be talking about Stephen Ross' character, not Flores'.

The snowflake stuff with Tua pales in comparison to the above in importance, as far as I am concerned. The above is much more important and much more of a deciding factor as to the character of this man than whether he yelled at Tua or wasn't always a teddy bear with him.

So this is not a cut/dry answer.  The NFL did find evidence that Stephen Ross made it known that he believed the Dolphins' position in the draft should take priority over the team's win record.  They did not find any evidence that people within the coaching ranks or players deliberately tried to lose games. 

As to the alleged bribe, there were varying "recollections" although ultimately it was determined that yes he did say he would pay 100k for every loss but that those present believed it was not a real offer and was made in jest.

Quote from: madbadger on August 22, 2024, 12:54:59 PMIt hamstrings his case because he's claiming that the Giants didn't hire him because of his race but now any jury is going to hear how he abusive he to his quarterback which directly impacted his teams performance. Giants can say that they weren't interested in hiring a coach with a track record of being abusive to his players regardless of skin color.

The follow-up question to that would be then why did they even interview him at all?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on August 23, 2024, 02:12:26 PMThe follow-up question to that would be then why did they even interview him at all?

Not only that, the Giants put it out there that they were very interested in him, though now we know that was a smokescreen and Daboll was always going to be the one.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on August 23, 2024, 02:12:26 PMThe follow-up question to that would be then why did they even interview him at all?

To find out if he's really an a-hole or not. At Miami he was a really good coach in everything but interpersonal relations. Perhaps they were looking to see if the juice was worth the squeeze. His reaction to not getting the job is probably a really good indication that he just isn't fit to be a head coach in the NFL.

Quote from: madbadger on August 23, 2024, 07:09:14 PMTo find out if he's really an a-hole or not. At Miami he was a really good coach in everything but interpersonal relations. Perhaps they were looking to see if the juice was worth the squeeze. His reaction to not getting the job is probably a really good indication that he just isn't fit to be a head coach in the NFL.

Reasonable theory.

I have to admit there is so much to this story that I really just don't know. It's hard for me to speculate with any confidence, so I won't try. There are too many important details I just don't know the exact truth of.

Was Parcells all that different? He was famous for pushing buttons. I guess if you win, it doesn't matter.