Big Blue Huddle

We go as far as DJ takes us. It is not unreasonable to doubt his ability to carry the load but it does seem odd not to sincerely hope he proves us wrong. Him succeeding would be the quickest and least disruptive path to being competitive. Unlikely? Probably. Desirable? Definitely.

If DJ fails there is no guarantee that whoever we draft or sign or trade for next year will do better than DJ in our environment. There is a tendency to assume a new QB will fix us but we, like most of the NFL, have more QB misses than hits on our resume. Hope is intoxicating but often ephemeral.

Quote from: DragonSoul on September 05, 2024, 10:15:11 PMIt has been a long off season for all of us I believe. And the DJ debate was & is bonkers. Sorry if I am beating a dead horse, haven't been on here for a while so just sharing my 2 cents.

My view has always been to support our team and the players until it becomes obvious that it is time to move on, when you put things into context.

To me the way people in general are treating DJ reminds me of how Eli had it before the SB, during the SB wins and after the SB wins. It always seemed to be an approximate 50/50 love/hate relationship.

Right now I believe this team is better than what we had 2 years ago and pretty much same FO, head coach and generally the coaching staff. Something we didn't see on this team for a great number of years.

If our Oline plays at least average and our WRs (besides Nabers) can have an impact with Hyatt in year two and Robinson having a full year + to recover then I believe this team can be much improved. Then add in the improved pass rush, LBS and yes we do have weakness in some areas.

Yet I feel if all of the above is average to solid, or even a bit up and down throughout the season/game, then this is the time to know if DJ is for real or not. If he plays well, then we have our future QB, if not, then it's time to find a qb or use him as a gap placement for a new QB but till then I will support him.

Also I had no issues with the Giants trying to potentially land a QB for a trade, because if you can find a gem (not saying DJ cannot become that) but it is a way to hedge your bet, and you can always trade one of the qb for picks down the road. Yet another major reason why I had no issue with it, is DJs injury issues which did make sense to have another potential top tier qb in here, if it became a worse case scenario.

Again, just my 2 cents. And lets go Giants, hopefully they can give us another great surprise year as they did two years ago.    

For a reference point the 2022 team maxed out their ability except for an extremely poorly coached OL that they had to scheme around. Now that squad even with a better coached OL wasn't going to beat the Eagles (or some other stronger playoff teams) but it was most definitely a fun team to watch.

One can argue this team is a more talented team at almost every unit than 2022. If in fact, they max their abilities (including the offense line under who should be a much better coach in Brillo Pad) they should be a much more fun team to watch which at minimum should beat the weaker and/or mediocre teams on their schedule.

That's a minimum baseline that I think is fair to expect. A bit more than that is in the realm of possibility but I don't want to go there without seeing how we look 1st few games before so very arrogantly raising the bar   

Quote from: kingm56 on September 06, 2024, 11:33:09 AMWe/Us?  I'm curious, who represents "we" and "us"?  Your choice to use those pronouns indicates you feel comfortable to speak for others and/or have aligned to specific affiliation/group; thus, giving credence to H-town's post.  BTW, when not explicitly tied to religion/politics, the term sect is not a pejorative.  It simply means "a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine or leader."  You clearly see yourself as part of a group, hence the pronouns "we" and "us." So, it appears the term sect is appropriate in this context...

To the OP - it was a well-articulated post; although, I fundamentally disagree that a professional NFL team needs 6 years and 77 games to determine the capabilities of their starting QB. Nevertheless, you're correct in this is his last chance...your post was very well done, sir.

Maybe you missed it but the post prior to mine, Mighty when addressing H Town specifically said not to be demonizing "people" and attacking other "members."

Notice, Mighty used (plural forms) meaning more than one, which would include the "we and us".

Furthermore, this was a comment of yours from a week ago, September 2nd, about (notice) "people" who defend Daniel Jones.

"""The track record of those three of four individuals inserting intellectual superiority (as it relates to football) have been lackluster."""

Finally, to call others a "sect", and to defend that position because they have a different opinion than yours is uncalled for.

It goes against the guidelines and rules to be able to post here, and shouldn't be tolerated, as Mighty succinctly pointed out.

You will in fact notice, that those of us who defend Daniel Jones and want to see him succeed will not call others who have a different opinion than ours a sect.

I would encourage you to do the same.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on September 06, 2024, 02:04:27 PMMaybe you missed it but the post prior to mine, Mighty when addressing H Town specifically said not to be demonizing "people" and attacking other "members."

Notice, Mighty used (plural forms) meaning more than one, which would include the "we and us".

Furthermore, this was a comment of yours from a week ago, September 2nd, about (notice) "people" who defend Daniel Jones.

"""The track record of those three of four individuals inserting intellectual superiority (as it relates to football) have been lackluster."""

Finally, to call others a "sect", and to defend that position because they have a different opinion than yours is uncalled for.

It goes against the guidelines and rules to be able to post here, and shouldn't be tolerated, as Mighty succinctly pointed out.

You will in fact notice, that those of us who defend Daniel Jones and want to see him succeed will not call others who have a different opinion than ours a sect.

I would encourage you to do the same.

Considering I was the one who used the word you're hung up on, I'll briefly respond: you're putting form (significantly) over substance. You can replace that term with whatever word you want to describe a group of people who believe similarly and offends you less--you'll find my point doesn't change. And I understand if you disagree with it and that's fine.

I prefer to enter a season with hope not disdain. In any event I think they have made enough moves to give DJ a proper support system. I am willing to see what he can do with it before jumping ship.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on September 06, 2024, 02:04:27 PMMaybe you missed it but the post prior to mine, Mighty when addressing H Town specifically said not to be demonizing "people" and attacking other "members."

Notice, Mighty used (plural forms) meaning more than one, which would include the "we and us".

Furthermore, this was a comment of yours from a week ago, September 2nd, about (notice) "people" who defend Daniel Jones.

"""The track record of those three of four individuals inserting intellectual superiority (as it relates to football) have been lackluster."""

Finally, to call others a "sect", and to defend that position because they have a different opinion than yours is uncalled for.

It goes against the guidelines and rules to be able to post here, and shouldn't be tolerated, as Mighty succinctly pointed out.

You will in fact notice, that those of us who defend Daniel Jones and want to see him succeed will not call others who have a different opinion than ours a sect.

I would encourage you to do the same.

You entirely missed the point; in this context, sect is not a pejorative. I gave you the literal definition. Your own words imply you fit said definition, which again is not Demeaning; thus, your attempt to occupy the moral high-ground is misplaced. 

Quote from: kingm56 on September 06, 2024, 02:58:37 PMYou entirely missed the point; in this context, sect is not a pejorative. I gave you the literal definition. Your own words imply you fit said definition, which again is not Demeaning; thus, your attempt to occupy the moral high-ground is misplaced.

I asked Chat GTP if the use of "sect" is pejorative or not:

QuoteWhether calling someone part of a "sect" is pejorative depends on context, tone, and cultural factors. Here's a breakdown:

Neutral Usage: In its neutral form, the word "sect" refers to a subgroup within a larger religious, political, or philosophical system, often characterized by distinct beliefs or practices. Historically, the term has been used in academic or theological discussions to describe smaller branches of major religions (e.g., Christian sects).

Pejorative Usage: The term can take on a negative connotation when it implies that the group is extreme, radical, or fringe. This pejorative usage may suggest cult-like behavior, intolerance, or divisiveness, implying that the group is outside societal norms or engages in questionable practices.

Cultural Sensitivity: In some regions or cultures, calling a group a "sect" may automatically carry negative implications, as it could suggest a breakaway group from a mainstream or accepted tradition. This can be especially true in countries where "sect" is associated with radicalism or social disruption.

In conclusion, while the term "sect" itself isn't inherently pejorative, it can be perceived that way depending on how it is used. Tone, context, and cultural perceptions play key roles in determining whether it's taken offensively.

When you combine H-Town's overall negative commentary, context in the thread, and the fact that there is no religious or political group (or philosophical system), it seems more than reasonable to say the use of "sect" was and was intended to be a pejorative.

Again, as with H-Town, you are displaying a pattern.  When H-Town attacks the fans he doesn't agree with, you chime in on how great his comments are and then often throw in your own personal attacks directed at your fellow fans with whom you don't agree.

Can we start this season off on a positive note and not fall back into this sort of behavior?  Both you and H-Town are long-time members who should set a good example and bring value with quality posts.  You should be posting about Giants football, not trying to insult fans you don't agree with

Please stop trying to drag me back into this. Practice what you preach.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on September 06, 2024, 03:16:23 PMPlease stop trying to drag me back into this. Practice what you preach.

Hear, hear.

All this for Daniel Jones. Thank goodness we are less than 48 hours away from the start of either a new found love affair with a NY underdog makes good....or the beginning of the end of his tenure.

Time will tell. Good luck Daniel we are rooting for u

@H-Town G-Fan and @EDjohnst1981

H-town, you were only mentioned because @kingm56 was attempting to gaslight over the insult you hurled. 

Do you guys really need to drag down every single threat that discusses our starting QB?  Can't we just let DJ play and see how he does?  Wouldn't it be better if you talked about Giants football instead of just bashing people you perceive as Daniel Jones sect members?

As a side note, I don't enjoy you guys bashing me.   I work too hard, and I deserve to be treated with respect both for my actions/words and as the owner (who spends all his own money) of the site.  It's disgraceful how you treat me.  I try to treat everyone here well, and you three crap all over me every chance you get.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 06, 2024, 04:02:27 PM@H-Town G-Fan and @EDjohnst1981

H-town, you were only mentioned because @kingm56 was attempting to gaslight over the insult you hurled. 

Do you guys really need to drag down every single threat that discusses our starting QB?  Can't we just let DJ play and see how he does?  Wouldn't it be better if you talked about Giants football instead of just bashing people you perceive as Daniel Jones sect members?

As a side note, I don't enjoy you guys bashing me.   I work too hard, and I deserve to be treated with respect both for my actions/words and as the owner (who spends all his own money) of the site.  It's disgraceful how you treat me.  I try to treat everyone here well, and you three crap all over me every chance you get.

I'm sorry you feel like that, @MightyGiants but I don't crap on you every chance I get - that's very misleading. There are weekly posts where I engage with you and thank you/like your efforts - this week see my post on the Leonard article and today on the cutting on Carter.

We are diametrically opposed in our view on Jones but hand on my heart, I don't think I'm disrespectful to you personally. I'm just steadfast in my views of Jones, I want him to succeed and I want the Giants to win.

 
You talk of respect but it's a two way street, I went to lengths to offer evidence to support my opinion in a thread this week. You explicitly said you couldn't be bothered to read it because you are "stats fatigued" or words to that affect - which is your right but it's hardly respectful.

Again, and for absolute clarity - I appreciate what you provide for this community. I read almost all the posts you start.

If you feel my behaviour is crapping on you or singling you out. Please report me and take I'll take any sanctions. I've been a member of this community for a very long time, to my knowledge nobody had reported me.

Reset... let's just make a point and not overstate it. And don't mock other's positions. Don't attempt to shut down conversation and make it about your own side. It's nobody's job here to control the content. The Moderators will remove the trolls and if you've been here long enough, you've seen it.

We don't have to agree, but remember that we're all on the same team.

Enjoy the season.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on September 06, 2024, 10:16:57 AMI generally agree. I'm not sure that any members of this board want the Giants to lose though.

So I'm unsure where this idea has spawned.

I was talking about me in general, as people rooting against DJ and those who rooted for us to lose last year at the end to get a better draft spot.

Essentially, if everything is about average this is it for DJ. It either makes him or breaks him at least as a Giants QB for the future.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on September 06, 2024, 10:45:30 AMThere seems to be a need from some to define "Good" Giants fans versus "Bad" Giants fans (whether they're actively aware they're making such a distinction or not). "Bad" Giants fans include those levying any sort of criticism against Daniel Jones, presumably because in this sect's collective mind anyone offering that criticism wants the Giants to fail (somehow, someway, however reductive and incorrect it may be). In this way, one can simply dismiss the opinions of "Bad" Giants fans without engaging critically with them. Perplexingly, however, slandering other players (Evan Neal, for example, or the departed Evan Engram) doesn't seemingly disqualify one from "Good" Giants fan status or make one a "Bad" fan, nor are there people starting threads about how Neal should get 6 years to prove he's an NFL starter.

Everyone has a right to their opinion. Hopefully with facts and things put into context. Constructive criticism is always welcomed.I will be the first to say DJ had a rough year whether you want to reason it, use context or another barometer.

Then there are certain positions that are different than others. Neal I have given plenty of time and still hold out a slight hope for due to injuries (context) but a lot is left to be desired. While Neal generally has to rely on himself and his RG doing their job with some leakage from other spots, you can see that there is a problem. With a QB I believe you can agree it can be the system, coaching, the oline, was, play calling and so forth. But it also lands on the QB shoulders when it is obvious. As it was when he was rushing throwing the ball away at time, because he was getting nailed so fast, so the few times he had protection his inner clock was off the charts.

But he did have a bad year no matter if you want to put it into context or not. But he also had good years with bad talent around him. Neal hasn't shown much, besides blocking air at times. I hope he's healed up and can show up. Because I wasn't gonna be surprised if they let him go before the season started with cuts, but they see something in him still I guess, so I have to support the coaches and hope Neal breaks out. If not he can easily be gone after this season just like DJ.