Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Ed Vette on September 05, 2024, 03:16:18 PMPessimistic or realistic?

As the old saying goes-  that's why we play the games.

Quote from: Giant Jim on September 05, 2024, 03:26:20 PMI don't appreciate being called a liar here. You can send me a personal message if you don't believe something I post. I looked up the vacation, then the game. The Giants were up 24-9 in the 3rd quarter when we arrived. It was in 1988, they were 2-2 going into the game and came in last place the year before with a losing record. My story was fact, not opinion.

Jim - I'll back your story 100% with the outcome. Game at RFK stadium, LT returning from his four-game substance suspension, wreaks havoc on young QB Mark Rypien and the Giants go up 24-9 as you described. The Redskins' first TD was spoiled when kicker Chip Lohmiller missed the extra point which, inevitably, became the margin of defeat for the hosts. Yet, the Redskins fought back and had a chance to go ahead late in the final quarter when Simms threw an interception and Redskins set Lohmiller up for a 30-something yard FG attempt. But the young kicker, who would one day become a Pro Bowl star, missed the game-winning attempt and the Giants ran out the clock with a couple of first downs to escape RFK with the win and a season sweep of the Redskins.

So, back to the story of "they'll blow it." They damned-well nearly did! The reigning Super Bowl Champion Redskins, however, were only too kind to give the Giants a pass on their mistakes that day.

Now, as for this "Hope-o-meter," my interpretation of this is quite simple. Read the biblical story of the Fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden which tells everything you need to know. If you've never taken a bite out of the proverbial "apple," or "fruit of the tree of Champions" (NOTE: translated here as "never WON the Super Bowl"), you have absolutely no idea what it means for your team to be the Champion of the NFL.

Prior to the end of the 1986 season, we all fell under that category and, going into that season, both the Giants and us fans were both hopeful AND hungry for that season to be the year they would finally break through. So, the 1986 Giants' "Hope-o-meter" was at full throttle.

Fast-forward 38 years, and four (4) Vince Lombardi trophies later, the Giants have had five (5) pickings at the tree, with four (4) sweet, delicious experiences (and one (1) rotten one ... blech!). We, for the most part, have the sixth sense whether or not we have a contender or not and, consequently, the "Hope-o-meter" rarely lies.

Is it truly better to journey in hope than to arrive?



What do you think?

Peace!

Quote from: Giant Jim on September 05, 2024, 03:26:20 PMI don't appreciate being called a liar here. You can send me a personal message if you don't believe something I post. I looked up the vacation, then the game. The Giants were up 24-9 in the 3rd quarter when we arrived. It was in 1988, they were 2-2 going into the game and came in last place the year before with a losing record. My story was fact, not opinion.

There is no way the majority of Giants fans 4 games into the 1988 season where we finished 10-6, 20 months after winning the SB were pessimistic fanbase. It's incomparable to today with 2 fluke winning seasons since 2012. So whoever at this bar yelled that they would blow this 24-9 lead must have been stuck with a 70's Giants mentality and did not represent the majority of Giants fans circa October 1988.

The prior year losing record was because of going 0-3 during the replacement games. The actual Giants team really went 6-6 and most of us called it a fluke that would rebound.

Quote from: TDToomer on September 06, 2024, 11:29:43 AMThere is no way the majority of Giants fans 4 games into the 1988 season where we finished 10-6, 20 months after winning the SB were pessimistic fanbase. It's incomparable to today with 2 fluke winning seasons since 2012. So whoever at this bar yelled that they would blow this 24-9 lead must have been stuck with a 70's Giants mentality and did not represent the majority of Giants fans circa October 1988.

The prior year losing record was because of going 0-3 during the replacement games. The actual Giants team really went 6-6 and most of us called it a fluke that would rebound.

Again, you're calling me a liar. You weren't there. I stand by what I wrote, I was there, I saw and heard what I heard. Re-read my post, You didn't read it right, I NEVER wrote YELLED. This has nothing to do with the 70's. I looked up the game later and talked to my friend that was with me that day and that's how he remembered it. He was there, you weren't. He reminded me that the Redskins were catching up as we were leaving to board and we never knew who won until we got home. It turns out they almost blew it, winning by only 1 point.

No one knew what that the regular season would end 10-6 in the middle of the 5th game with a 2-2 record. We had only 2.5 years of good football that was capped off with the super bowl win and then it was back to where they were, losing the first 2 games of the '87 season before the strike, which you failed to mention. Finishing at 6-6 was about as good as finishing 7-7 in 1967 and 1968, .500. Starting out 2-2 was well below expectations for a team that was considered a super bowl contender.

Again, you've called me a liar to the group here and you weren't there and have no knowelge of what was said. From what you've written here, I know to skip over your posts in the future because they could be meaningless fiction.

Quote from: TDToomer on September 06, 2024, 11:29:43 AMThere is no way the majority of Giants fans 4 games into the 1988 season where we finished 10-6, 20 months after winning the SB were pessimistic fanbase. It's incomparable to today with 2 fluke winning seasons since 2012. So whoever at this bar yelled that they would blow this 24-9 lead must have been stuck with a 70's Giants mentality and did not represent the majority of Giants fans circa October 1988.

The prior year losing record was because of going 0-3 during the replacement games. The actual Giants team really went 6-6 and most of us called it a fluke that would rebound.

Hi Donnie.

May I ask you a question? Did you live and die, game for game, as a Giant fan in 1987 and 1988? If you did, I would be very interested in how your experience of being a Giant fan was in the 1980s. For me, I was an 11 year old kid in North Jersey who used to go to Giants Stadium with my dad and watched, with my own two eyes, right before me, the absolute worst of the worst teams the Giants fielded in the 1970s into 1980. By 1990, they had reached their final crescendo under Parcells in reaching the summit and pulling off one of the great Championship years that punched Parcells' ticket into the Hall of Fame. But getting there had some of the most frustrating bumps along the way and I am referring to the post Super Bowl XXI era.

To appreciate what I am talking about, you had to have lived the Wilderness Years, which brought about Giants Stadium in 1976, The Fumble in 1978, the plane flying over the stadium with the 15 Years of Lousy Football - We've Had Enough banner, the Ticket Burning ceremony, in all, the nadir of Wellington Mara's reign over the club which brought in George Young and Ray Perkins. Then, the slow but eventual climb out of thr ashes which gave rays of hope in 1980 (e.g. finally beating the Cowboys). LT and the playoffs in 1981. Parcells taking over and the club making its run, albeit with potholes along the way in 1984 and 1985, but the hope kept growing. 1986 the hope hit the all-time high and us fans finally were rewarded with the long awaited championship.

But 1987 had question marks going in with holdouts and the threat of the strike. The long-awaited rematch between the Giants and Bears, to start the season, was a cold slap in the face that sobered every Giant fan from their Super Bowl XXI hangover. Losing to Dallas the following week made it even worse. The Three replacement players games buried any hope for 1987. They were no longer the 1986 team who could inflict their will on anyone. Their offensive line was makeshift since Karl Nelson was diagnosed with Hodgkins Disease, Simms went down for three games. Raul Allegre missed the game winning FGs he made in '86. The hope-o-meter never recovered after that Bears trouncing.

But 1988, in my mind at least, was going to be a revenge year from the '87 disaster. I'll admit my hopes were high, perhaps too high, although they were rewarded with an opening day win over the Redskins that one could argue they had no business winning, with LT suspended, Banks and Bavaro missing training camp and out of shape, Sean Landeta injuring his leg for the year. But it started off with a revenge win over the champion Redskins.

Next up were the rival 49ers who won a strike game the previous year but were looking for revenge on the Giants. They started Steve Young and the 49ers moved the ball at will but, every time they moved into scoring position, they turned the ball over. The Giants stayed in the game largely due to this. But even after Joe Montana took over in the second half, the 49ers couldn't put the Giants away. But the Giants eventually took the lead and were about to steal another key win from a perennial playoff contender. Then, the greatness of Montana and Rice surfaced to rescue the 49ers and earn the critical win which ultimately factored in both teams' final record and playoff position. That loss stunned me, personally, and it took the better part of 20 years to make peace with my inner self over that horrifying loss. The "hope-o-meter," at least for me, took a huge hit with this loss.

A win against the lowly Cowboys, by a controversial safety on the opening kickoff in week three, instilled little hope. But the following week, when John Robinson's Rams whipped the daylights out of the Giants, things were not looking good. If there was any hope for the Giants, it was that they played a fifth place schedule in 1988, which meant they'd play lowly Detroit twice and the Jets and Chiefs instead of the AFC Central Division teams.

So, at 2-2, they barely get by Washington, getting LT back, and are now 3-2. Now comes the infamous MNF coming out party in Filthy-delphia for Randall Cunningham with his plastic man act on Carl Banks' hit and throws the game winning TD. Another tough loss, this time to an up and coming division rival, and now, confidence and hope is down in frustration as the Giants began what was supposed to be the weakest part of their schedule.

At 3-3, the Lions paid a rare visit to Giants Stadium, the first time since the stadium opened in 1976, and the Giants expected to make short work of their visitors. But these weren't cowardly Lions as Rusty Hilger tossed a TD and the Lions and Giants went into the locker room tied at 10 at halftime. This was the game Harry Carson punched a hole in the chalkboard and threaten his teammates to not bother coming out of the locker room if they weren't ready to play. The Giants finally woke up and thrashed the Lions to a 30-10 win. The following week in Atlanta, the Giants were getting beaten by the lowly Falcons, despite Joe Morris breaking the team record for rushing yards. It was Carl Banks who stepped up to make the big play to run an INT back for the go-ahead score. But the Falcons, in the final play of the game, completed a Hail Mary that the Giants stopped at their one yard line to preserve the win. A 5-3 record but the Hope-o-meter still not where it should be. This team either hadn't woken up or was not the contender we hoped they could have been.

The second half of the '88 season began in lethargic style with the rematch with Detroit at the Pontiac Silverdome. A 10-10 dud that was finally settled in overtime with a Paul McFadden FG. A most unimpressive 6-3 record with Dallas coming into Giants Stadium in what would be Tom Landry's last game against his old team. But with the pressure on the Giants to take care of the lesser teams on their schedule, they finally came out swinging and had the Cowboys on the ropes in jumping them to a 26-0 halftime lead. Landry switched QBs from Steve Pelluer to Kevin Sweeney and, all of a sudden, the backup QB jinx that plagued the Giants in the 80s was rearing its ugly head again, as the Cowboys fought back to trail 26-21 before the Giants put the Cowboys at arms' reach with a final FG to win 29-21. The team was winning ugly, but were at the top of the division.

Their first visit to Tempe, AZ to play the Cardinals ended in a tough loss, followed by the bizarre OT loss to the Eagles at rain soaked Giants Stadium which Simms was injured and left the game early. The hope-o-meter was at a season low at this point as Philly grabbed the key head-to-head tie breaker in the division.

With Simms out, and Jeff Hostetler about to make his first NFL start, the 7-5 Giants traveled to the Big Easy to face the hot 9-3 Saints who led the NFC West division at the time. The heroics of an injured but determined Lawrence Taylor, an opportunistic TD bomb from the Hoss to Stephen Baker, and kicker Paul McFadden kicking the game winner in an epic battle which saved the Giants' season and, in the process, woke up every player, coach and fan to finally believe that this team could do it. The hope-o-meter swung back into the positive zone with the knowledge they would play the rest of their season at home.

Their first victim was the rematch with the Cardinals on a bone-chilly cold day the Arizona-based team wasn't used to and it showed. The Giants' dominance was completely throughout the game and it showed on the scoreboard in a 44-7 romp. The hope-o-meter needle moved further to the right.

Next up were the Kansas City Chiefs. In a slightly more competitive match-up, the team's traded off score for score; however, it was the Chiefs kicking FGs while the Giants scored TDs. The 28-12 triumph put the Giants at 10-5 and all alone atop the NFC East. Win the following week and the #2 seed in the NFC playoffs was theirs. The hope-o-meter was nearing full throttle.

The Week #16 contest against the Jets was, in many aspects, a true microcosm of their entire season. They started the game on their heels with Jets taking it to them early and often in jumping out to a 20-7 lead. Bizarre mistakes, such as Phil McConkey dropping a punt, which the Jets recovered and converted into a score, further increased the frustration. But when their backs were against the wall, it was Phil Simms stepping forward and commanding the team's charge forward. In the final minutes, he engineered one of his greatest comeback drives which resulted in thr go-ahead TD to put the Giants ahead 21-20. The hope-o-meter for the division championship and a Super Bowl run were all lined up. Only there was one problem. All the injuries the Giants suffered throughout the season came back to bite them in the next drive. Paul McFadden, who filled in so well for Raul Allegre, failed to kick well into the windy Giants Stadium gusts, and helped give the Jets the ball around midfield. The secondary, who were playing with reserves, had Tom Flynn trying to cover Al Toon, a matchup made in hell for the Giants. In fact, Ken Obrien passed to Toon for the winning points and, as Simms desperately tried to Hail Mary the ball downfield in the final seconds, that hope-o-meter, just about to top out moments before, completely fizzled out and broke as the final gun shot and the game ended. Meanwhile, the Eagles defeated the Cowboys to win the NFC East and, that evening, the 49ers laid down like dogs to the Rams to ensure the Giants were eliminated completely from post-season '88.

That 1988 season left a bitter taste in many Giant fans' mouths, but it completely changed me as far as being the eternally optimistic fan I was during the mid 80s as they got closer to the first Super Bowl. In fact, not only 1988 but the outcome in the 1989 playoffs further tortured my heart and soul; especially after the performance of the Rams the following week in San Francisco. But 1990 was different and I could sense Parcells got it and he figured out how to compete against the Rams, 49ers and Eagles and managed to beat all three of them, as well as the Bills, in what was his greatest coaching effort in his career.

To conclude, 1988 and 1989 were years of transition for the Giants and Parcells did what he had to in order to refresh the roster while keeping the team competitive. In hindsight, some 35 years later, it's much clearer now. As a one-eyed Giant fan living in the moment, with the emotions of winning the Super Bowl only a couple of years removed, you're frustrated that they cannot find that level of intensity and sustain it like they did in 1986. You lose hope when the Randall Cunninghams become en vogue, or the St. Louis Cardinals move to the desert and use it as a home field advantage. You finally get ahead of the 49ers and a miracle Montana to Rice play takes the win right out of your hands. Or, Al Toon takes away your playoffs and a first round bye and you're left, instead, with "bye bye!"

The 1987 season took a lot of the bloom off the 1986 roses. 1988 was expected to restore that. 10 wins was nothing to sneeze at and the Giants were competitive the entire way. One play here, and/or one play there, the Giants, not the 49ers, might have been in Super Bowl XXIII. Phil Simms was quoted as saying he had no doubt they would have gone all the way. But if "ifs and buts were candies and nuts ..."

I've spent the better part of the day thinking back to 1988 and remembering it all as a crazy 19 year old sophomore at St. Rose in Albany when my dorm would have Tom Flynn's brother over to visit us, party and sometimes watch the games. I can definitely say there were times I was about to throw something at my TV before some crazy play would happen and they'd end up winning. An "emotional roller coaster" is the best way to describe that season.

I'm done!

Peace!

Rather than describe myself as a pessimist- I left that kind of thing behind a long time ago- I would simply say that most of my surprises are likely to be favorable ones, of a happy sort.

Speaking of surprises, it's interesting to see the Cows sit just above Our Heroes among the 9 teams whose fans are viewed as above .500 on the P scale. I reckon that reflects a rather large difference in the nature of the expectation.

"'C'est la vie,' say the old folks, 'it goes to show you never can tell.'" Ne c'est pas?

Cheers! 

kartanoman I appreciate the effort but that was tl,dr.

We could only hope the 2024 Giants are anything like the 88 team.

Quote from: TDToomer on September 08, 2024, 10:25:01 AMkartanoman I appreciate the effort but that was tl,dr.

We could only hope the 2024 Giants are anything like the 88 team.

For this, I'm with you 100%!

Still a fun exercise for me, nonetheless!

Here's to a new beginning as we celebrate their centennial!

Peace!