Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: katkavage on September 09, 2024, 08:53:45 AMIs Jones the only problem? Was the team well coached yesterday. Was the game plan sound? Were they prepared?

Honestly yes he was the biggest problem by leaps and bounds. I was at the game. Guys were open. Either by scheme or talent but they were. OL held up a hell of a lot better than the past few years. If you swapped QBs and nothing else the Giants win that game. There's not a doubt in my mind.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 09, 2024, 08:56:47 AMTim,

It was pretty clear Mara didn't want to move on from Barkley and that he definitely didn't want to see Barkley in an Eagles uniform.   So it appears that Schoen is more than comfortable with moving in directions his owner doesn't want to move.

Rich,

I think we're mixing signals.

Mara indirectly influences, not forces his people, but influences them to do what he wants. Yes, he also lets them make their own decisions, even if it goes against what he wants.

Mara needs to keep his personnel preferences to himself.

Daboll was the COTY in his rookie campaign for leading a bottom-tier roster to a playoff berth, hiding DJ along the way to his best year of his career (and the one that got him paid). We're going to jettison that guy? When he's never had the opportunity to develop his own QB? Dear lord, who would ever take the Giants job again? If you can't turn Daniel Jones into a top-flight starter every season, hit the bricks. Does he have warts? Absolutely. But I've heard the "grass is always greener" to defend DJ--do we not apply the same logic here?

I feel similarly with respect to Schoen. Inherited a debacle because of Gettleman. Just because Gettleman's players aren't on this team anymore doesn't mean the effects are gone. You know who should still be contributing? Their first rounder from 2021. Instead, Gettleman blew that on Kadarius Toney. They're getting nothing from an asset that should be adding value to the team. That entire draft class should still be contributing and they're worthless because we let a dinosaur puff his chest and pretend like his outmoded ideologies were still relevant. Same for 2020 (save for AT). So while some might say this is wholly Schoen's roster (and it is true), it's not a holistic take on what this roster is/should be.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on September 09, 2024, 09:11:22 AMI feel similarly with respect to Schoen. Inherited a debacle because of Gettleman. Just because Gettleman's players aren't on this team anymore doesn't mean the effects are gone.

The team's two best players are "Gettleman's players" in Dex and Andrew Thomas

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 09, 2024, 09:12:27 AMThe team's two best players are "Gettleman's players" in Dex and Andrew Thomas

And they should be. AT was a #4 pick. Dex #17. They're in the prime. Unless the implication is that only Gettleman was capable of making those picks, it's not very meaningful. And tell me about how Gettleman's 2nd round and farther down selections are doing?

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on September 09, 2024, 09:14:25 AMAnd they should be. AT was a #4 pick. Dex #17. They're in the prime. Unless the implication is that only Gettleman was capable of making those picks, it's not very meaningful. And tell me about how Gettleman's 2nd round and farther down selections are doing?

After 3 off-seasons of player acquisitions with 3 top 10 picks in the mix, it's not a good sign when the top two players on the team were left to you by Gettleman.  If you count the players that Schoen let walk- like Barkley, McKinney, and Love the number of top players left to Schoen would be even higher.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on September 09, 2024, 09:14:25 AMAnd they should be. AT was a #4 pick. Dex #17. They're in the prime. Unless the implication is that only Gettleman was capable of making those picks, it's not very meaningful. And tell me about how Gettleman's 2nd round and farther down selections are doing?

Gettleman also picked Jones, Toney and Barkley. I disagreed with both as poor picks for when they were picking. And neither has delivered in terms of building the franchise that needed a rebuild.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 09, 2024, 08:54:29 AMIf you want to give Daboll a free pass for his poor coaching, that is certainly within your rights. 

Quote from: katkavage on September 09, 2024, 08:53:45 AMIs Jones the only problem? Was the team well coached yesterday. Was the game plan sound? Were they prepared?

The team was not ready for the second year in a row. 

But the defense came out fired up and only gave up 21 points so that is winnable.  Thibs and burns were non existent and I expected more. Banks got lit up by Jefferson but most do.  The 99 yard drive kills but at the end of the day they gave up 21 points.

Nothing is going to take way the desire of team like a QB playing uninspiring, horrible football.

The checkdowns with open receivers is not on Daboll.  He is trying to run an offense with a speed bump at QB. 

Jones is the biggest problem and it is not even close. He had protection, he had open receivers, he takes the check downs when he doesn't need to and ignores the checkdowns when he does need them, he simply can not lead a receiver even on a drag route right in front of him, and never makes anyone better on the offense.

He is the guy on offense the team is trying to conceptually buffer against by strategy and design.  The QB is the problem and in no the answer.  The vanilla, simple offense is in place to mitigate against Jones's shortcoming.  We strategize against our own QB!!!

Quote from: babywhales on September 09, 2024, 09:17:36 AMThe team was not ready for the second year in a row. 

But the defense came out fired up and only gave up 21 points so that is winnable. 

Nothing is going to take way the desire of team like a QB playing uninspiring, horrible football.

The checkdowns with open receivers is not on Daboll.  He is trying to run an offense with a speed bump at QB. 

Jones is the biggest problem and it is not even close. He had protection, he had open receivers, he takes the check downs when he doesn't need to and ignores the checkdowns when he does need them, he simply can not lead a receiver even on a drag route right in front of him, and never makes anyone better on the offense.

He is the guy on offense the team is trying to conceptually buffer against by strategy and design.  The QB is the problem and in no the answer.  The vanilla, simple offense is in place to mitigate against Jones's shortcoming.  We strategize against our own QB!!!

The defense made Sam Darnold look like Joe Montana and let the Vikings march down the field 99 yards.  I am not going to pretend the defense was anything but subpar.   The Vikings dialed it back in the second half, or the score would have been much higher. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 09, 2024, 09:16:58 AMAfter 3 off-seasons of player acquisitions with 3 top 10 picks in the mix, it's not a good sign when the top two players on the team were left to you by Gettleman.  If you count the players that Schoen let walk- like Barkley, McKinney, and Love the number of top players left to Schoen would be even higher.

First off, that's not an answer. I'll do it for you: virtually none of Gettleman's picks outside the first round are still on the Giants' roster. Ojulari is a (underwhelming) rotational DE. Carter Coughlin a special teamer. That's basically it.

I wonder why they couldn't sign Love in 2023... Oh wait, Golladay still had a $10MM+ cap hit because of Gettleman. I wonder why they couldn't sign Barkley in 2023. Same deal (and they wasted cap on DJ). I don't know why you want to imply that Gettleman somehow did a good job building a roster for Schoen to inherit. Can Schoen do better? Very possibly. But those are not mutually exclusive concepts and pitting them against one another doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 09, 2024, 09:21:43 AMThe defense made Sam Darnold look like Joe Montana and let the Vikings march down the field 99 yards.  I am not going to pretend the defense was anything but subpar.  The Vikings dialed it back in the second half, or the score would have been much higher. 

That is where you draw the line on pretending?

It is interesting to see you jump right in with your criticism of the coaching and defense ....

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 09, 2024, 09:21:43 AMThe Vikings dialed it back in the second half, or the score would have been much higher. 

Rich: Yes, they did. Smart move to save something for next week (Niners, I think). Bob

Quote from: babywhales on September 09, 2024, 09:28:56 AMThat is where you draw the line on pretending?

It is interesting to see you jump right in your criticism of the coaching and defense ....

I also criticized DJ, but apparently, I didn't blame him hard enough or blame everything on him.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 09, 2024, 09:12:27 AMThe team's two best players are "Gettleman's players" in Dex and Andrew Thomas

In truth, this is only part of the personnel issue. It is missing in finding talent in the lower rounds which has significantly impacted this club.

But the scary part yesterday was the two teams had equal time of possession at the end of the first half. Going into the locker room, everyone knew the Giants' gooses were cooked. What did that say about the personnel?

Not a good look at all!

Peace!

Quote from: kartanoman on September 09, 2024, 09:33:52 AMIn truth, this is only part of the personnel issue. It is missing in finding talent in the lower rounds which has significantly impacted this club.

But the scary part yesterday was the two teams had equal time of possession at the end of the first half. Going into the locker room, everyone knew the Giants' gooses were cooked. What did that say about the personnel?

Not a good look at all!

Peace!

Chris,

I held out slim hope that the Giants could at least make it competitive in the second half.  When it appeared, the Giants opened the second half with a rare (I think it was their first) 3-and-out defensive stop, only to have it negated by a facemask penalty on KT; that's when I knew the team's goose was fully cooked.