Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: babywhales on September 09, 2024, 09:58:01 AMJones is a 47 mill cap hit this season and you know that and how I got the number.

 Transferring 7 mill is not the issue.  Call it 40 mill, call it what it is 47 mill.  Hell I thought he was worth 28 mill per before the extension and I was completely wrong.  Jones isn't worth the 5mill drew Luck was given. 

you have a real knack for ignoring so many other points to side track a conversation on minor detail you take issue with.

Call it 40 mill, who cares do you feel better about his play then ?  40 mill vs 3.3 or 47 mill vs 3.3 is the detail you choose to take issue with?

Chris,

I have a long history of valuing and trying to be accurate in my claims.   To attack me for pointing out a mistake/false claim instead of acknowledging the issue doesn't exactly impress me.  As the old saying goes, we are entitled to our own opinions but not our own facts (the foundation of said opinions). 

As for odd issues, this post was to provide information how the rookie QBs did and also compare it to what DJ did, since there was considerable debate about taking a rookie vs Daniel Jones.   You made a huge issue (repeated over multiple threads) about DJ's salary.  Yet you completely ignored acquisition costs. 

While NYG is paying DJ $40 million per, the cost of one of those rookie QBs would be no Malek Nabers on the roster.  That is a point that shouldn't be ignored if you are going to bring up salary.

https://x.com/The33rdTeamFB/status/1832865174195490852

https://x.com/The33rdTeamFB/status/1833148450512261602

I'm not surprised Burrow is so low. His star wide out has basically not practiced for a while, his other star wideout wasn't playing yesterday. He perhaps ought to be judged when his pillars are back.

I do find it interesting that throughout his last seven games, Jones has thrown 2 TDs - both in one half of football. My word.

Those players are rookies in their first NFL game, and will improve.
Jones is now in his 6th season, and is just as bad as a rookie playing his first game.

It's pleasing that only one rookie, playing in his first every NFL out performed our sixth year starter.

What a relief.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on September 09, 2024, 09:24:16 AMTo me the point is having Daniel Jones as your QB is like starting a rookie who struggles. For six consecutive years we basically have a rookie who is arguably in over his head playing the most important position on the field. The difference is those rookies may improve whereas Daniel Jones has established himself as having a low ceiling.

Was Jones over his head in 2022? The Giants won a road playoff game and Jones was the best player on the field. I just don't understand how a statement "for six consecutive years, we basically have a rookie.." is valid. But would like your explanation.


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Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on September 09, 2024, 10:43:21 AMI'm not surprised Burrow is so low. His star wide out has basically not practiced for a while, his other star wideout wasn't playing yesterday. He perhaps ought to be judged when his pillars are back.

I do find it interesting that throughout his last seven games, Jones has thrown 2 TDs - both in one half of football. My word.

Certainly does show how much pillars can impact a QB's performance.

Quote from: todge on September 09, 2024, 11:17:57 AMWas Jones over his head in 2022? The Giants won a road playoff game and Jones was the best player on the field. I just don't understand how a statement "for six consecutive years, we basically have a rookie.." is valid. But would like your explanation.


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First, Jones was NOT the best player on the field. It's always been Barkley, offensively.

The playbook was drastically limited to dink and dunk passes and heavy doses of Saquon. Let's also not forget that the defense kept games close so they wouldn't have to rely on the offense to win the game.

The Giants were second to Minny in winning one-score games.

For those mentioning rookies in their first game:

Here was Daniel Jones in his first game as a rookie


Daniel Jones (vs Bucs 2019)-  23/36 336 yards 2/0 TD/INT; 88.7 QBR 112.7 QB rating 4 for 28 yards rushing 2 TDs (5 sacks)

Quote from: todge on September 09, 2024, 11:17:57 AMWas Jones over his head in 2022? The Giants won a road playoff game and Jones was the best player on the field. I just don't understand how a statement "for six consecutive years, we basically have a rookie.." is valid. But would like your explanation.


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It amazes me there are still a few posters who continue to view 2022 in an utter vacuum.  Focusing on passing production, DJ still produced a bottom 5 offense, which he/the Giants compensated with an impressive running performance.  Without the latter, DJ is a below average QB, making his and the Giants trajectory easily forecasted.    When you consider the 61 game aggregate, he is WELL below the mean; yes, he's had a handful of stella games against bottom 5 defenses, including the 2022 Minn performance.  Mitch Trubisky was a pro bowler, 2x NFC player of the week and made the playoffs.  Based on your comment, can I assume you believe he should be a starting NFL QB? 

Eli Manning was the last Giants QB to throw form more than 3500 yards in a season, and that was 6 years ago.  In the NFL's golden passing era, DJ and the Giants simply can't pass the ball.  If the Giants are going to compete in the modern era, they're going to have to increase thier passing production by 30%, which is no small task.         

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 09, 2024, 11:23:17 AMFor those mentioning rookies in their first game:

Here was Daniel Jones in his first game as a rookie


Daniel Jones (vs Bucs 2019)-  23/36 336 yards 2/0 TD/INT; 88.7 QBR 112.7 QB rating 4 for 28 yards rushing 2 TDs (5 sacks)

I could care less about a single game; I prefer to consider the aggregate.  As I've repeated multiple times, post 2012, it takes 20-to-30 games to make an accurate prediction, as it relates to QBs.

Quote from: kingm56 on September 09, 2024, 11:33:04 AMI could care less about a single game; I prefer to consider the aggregate.  As I've repeated multiple times, post 2012, it takes 20-to-30 games to make an accurate prediction, as it relates to QBs.

Like with the QB who leads the league in EPA per throw?

"accurate" and "prediction" are simply not words that go together, especially with football.  If "accurate predictions" were feasible, someone other than the bookies would be consistently making money better on football.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 09, 2024, 11:40:52 AMLike with the QB who leads the league in EPA per throw?

"accurate" and "prediction" are simply not words that go together, especially with football.  If "accurate predictions" were feasible, someone other than the bookies would be consistently making money better on football.

Accurate: "capable of or successful in reaching the intended target."

Accurate does not equate to being 100% correct. Nobody is 100% accurate with thier predictions; if only it was that easy. 

And are you talking about EPA per throws after a single game?  What time frame are you referencing?

If you're referencing Mayfield, I suggest you go back and read what I posted about him.  He's a solid starting QB, who will continue to have high UPs and Downs.  He's consistent at being inconsistent, but his aggregate numbers are solid.  In his first 30 games, he clearly proved he belongs in this league.  For heaven sakes, he received AP votes and was oROY, despite playing for the great Hue Jackson and Freddy Kitchen.  However, I don't believe he's dynamic enough to beat the superstar AFC QBs to capture a SB. 

Quote from: kingm56 on September 09, 2024, 11:33:04 AMI could care less about a single game; I prefer to consider the aggregate.  As I've repeated multiple times, post 2012, it takes 20-to-30 games to make an accurate prediction, as it relates to QBs.

And yet, we are still evaluating Jones. Aren't we?

I'm not sure what the original point about the rookies actually is?