Big Blue Huddle

According to NextGenStats, Nabers averaged 3.9 yds of separation which puts him 8th among NFL WRs. This is as open as it gets for a QB. The offense isn't the problem, Jones is

Quote from: VanPelt on September 09, 2024, 11:33:44 AMAccording to NextGenStats, Nabers averaged 3.9 yds of separation which puts him 8th among NFL WRs. This is as open as it gets for a QB. The offense isn't the problem, Jones is

In fact in total, again according to NExtGenStats, the Giants receivers were 4th in total yds of separation per play. The plays were there, the offense works, the QB doesn't.

Quote from: VanPelt on September 09, 2024, 11:36:23 AMIn fact in total, again according to NExtGenStats, the Giants receivers were 4th in total yds of separation per play. The plays were there, the offense works, the QB doesn't.

I saw it first hand.  They were open a LOT.  This was not like last year.  OL was good, WR/TE's were good.  The QB was unconscionably bad.

Quote from: VanPelt on September 09, 2024, 11:33:44 AMAccording to NextGenStats, Nabers averaged 3.9 yds of separation which puts him 8th among NFL WRs. This is as open as it gets for a QB. The offense isn't the problem, Jones is

To be clear, SEP measures the separation of the intended receiver, so doesn't account for routes that weren't targeted on a particular play.

But it doesn't really matter to your point, I believe. Jones's AGG was 9.5%, meaning 1/10 throws was to a player with a defender within 1 yard (realistically, 4 throws the entire game). That also means that vast majority of his other throws (90.5%) were to guys who were pretty well open. An idle comment from Vilma (who is not known for his astute color commentary) shouldn't be viewed as actual evidence that receivers had difficulty separating in the game.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on September 09, 2024, 11:44:54 AMTo be clear, SEP measures the separation of the intended receiver, so doesn't account for routes that weren't targeted on a particular play.

But it doesn't really matter to your point, I believe. Jones's AGG was 9.5%, meaning 1/10 throws was to a player with a defender within 1 yard (realistically, 4 throws the entire game). That also means that vast majority of his other throws (90.5%) were to guys who were pretty well open. An idle comment from Vilma (who is not known for his astute color commentary) shouldn't be viewed as actual evidence that receivers had difficulty separating in the game.

Wow I haven't see that number, that is really something. These receivers are "NFL open", of course they are just not Daniel Jones open

Quote from: VanPelt on September 09, 2024, 11:52:07 AMWow I haven't see that number, that is really something. These receivers are "NFL open", of course they are just not Daniel Jones open

For reference:

Daboll went against the entire emphasis of training camp (throwing downfield), going to heavy packages and it has to be has no trust in Jones to manage an offense. Just play it safe, avoid chaos. Pfft. Lets not forget Schoen having McFadden dress, not play, and no backup punt returner, only 51 dressed. Huh? Salary cap backfire there.

So, going to heavy packages (Daboll) and no Jakob Johnson? Simmons benched after being used a lot in camp..screwed up the pick six as well with that Marx Brothers formation, too.

They were totally unprepared, as well as listless and lost.

Quote from: Bob In PA on September 09, 2024, 07:18:14 AMTim: No doubt about it. Among other members, I said before the preseason I thought he should play every minute of every preseason game. Knowing that was probably unreasonable (the team IS governed by what the doctors told them about his knee), I expected he would be asked to play at least one quarter of each of the three preseason games, but it didn't happen.  That move (or lack of a move) made no sense to me, and they paid for it yesterday.  Bob

Particularly since he hadn't played in a game in months due to rehabbing.  If he gradually improves over the next 2-3 weeks it will be a sign of bad judgement by Daboll to not give him pre-season playing time to knock off the rust.  You can't fail to have your team ready to compete in the pursuit of injury avoidance.

I haven't said much about the game because it wasn't on here, but from what I'm reading there seems to be a disconnect between what Daboll was doing in camp and what he did in the game.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on September 09, 2024, 01:29:16 PMParticularly since he hadn't played in a game in months due to rehabbing.  If he gradually improves over the next 2-3 weeks it will be a sign of bad judgment by Daboll to not give him pre-season playing time to knock off the rust.  You can't fail to have your team ready to compete in the pursuit of injury avoidance.

I haven't said much about the game because it wasn't on here, but from what I'm reading there seems to be a disconnect between what Daboll was doing in camp and what he did in the game.

AZR: Assuming Jones plays and does not incur an injury, it is virtually impossible he will fail to improve at least gradually over the next 2-3 weeks, because...

(a) it was his worst game ever in a Giants uniform (and if not, it was darn close to the worst).

(b) repeating myself... no one who ever suffered an ACL would expect Jones to have been shot out of a cannon at the start of this (or any) season.

(c) also repetition... it's possible the docs wouldn't allow so much preseason play; and/or it may have something to do with the contract's injury clause... either way, it was a mistake to not push him a bit.

Bob

if Jones wasnt ready to play, thats still on Daboll. Ive seen a completely healthy DJ and that version was never good enough despite every excuse made for him. Now, hes shot mentally, by all appearances, and skittish, unsure and still making rookie-type mistakes still. Sorry, they cant win with him and have really nothing to lose if hes benched. Keep him starting and he may very well get hurt (injury clause whammy).

Daboll in his interview yesterday attempted to put the "blame" for Sunday's debacle on himself. Bob

Quote from: Bob In PA on September 10, 2024, 08:07:32 AMDaboll in his interview yesterday attempted to put the "blame" for Sunday's debacle on himself. Bob

As he should. He had Jones out there unprepared.

We'll see what Sunday brings.

Quote from: Bob In PA on September 10, 2024, 08:07:32 AMDaboll in his interview yesterday attempted to put the "blame" for Sunday's debacle on himself. Bob

Indeed, the quintessential "outcoaching himself" strategy. Not to fear, coach, it wasn't in the cards for you anyway.

The only thing worse, Bob, is a repeat of the helter skelter Dave Brown season of 1996 with lame duck head coach Dan Reeves. Sadly, if this season starts turning into that mess again, I'm done watching football from the east coast and I'll wait 'til 1 PM (2 PM after DST ends) for the west coast games.

As bad as it imploded into a dumpster 🔥 in 2021, I just can't handle another 1996-like season and will shut it down for good.

It's not like Tommy "Chicken Cutlets" is the second coming of Danny Kanell anyway, right? At least Kanell won a game in '96 and a division crown in '97.

Peace!

It's very simple Dabol/Schoen inherited a pile at QB. Dabol is limited in what he can do with this offense because he has a QB who plays at 33rpm in a 78rpm league. Dabol/Schoen deserve to have THEIR own QB to work with not the Gettlemen folly of QB hell. Mara lives in a totally different world than us fans. If revenue/income were tied to winning then things would be different. Do any of you know another business where putting out a vastly inferior product still brings in $$$$$$$$? The value of the Giants in 2014 was a little over $2Billion, today it's $7.3Billion. It's a business, the owners are all businessmen/women. Where's the incentive?

In no way am I fully exonerating DJ at this point. It is clear he has limitations.

However The offense Daboll is trying to get him to run it seems he just cant run.

The offense he ran in 2022: simpler route concepts , some motion but not overdone, misdirections, playaction with more clear reads and maybe less option routes was both easier for the players as well as easier on DJ to execute.

One executive when asked via the Athletic through Dan Duggan said essentially the same thing:

Their best chance with Daniel Jones is to do what they did a couple years ago: Go heavy play-action, simple boots with simple reads, and scheme those guys to be open,"

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5743377/2024/09/05/nfc-rankings-49ers-packers-lions-nfl-executives?source=user-shared-article

Vilma even brought this up during the broadcast in terms of highlighting that the receivers seem a bit tenative and confused out there as well.

Daboll himself seemed to recognize this PRIOR to the game and made a statement about it:

BRIAN DABOLL (from Satirdays presser): Yeah. Again, (we) put (in) a lot of hard work. Guys have done everything they could possibly do through OTAs, through training camp. Coaches spent a lot of time preparing for opening game. The unique thing about the opening game is you have 17 games plus additional information to look at. There's information overload at times as a coach when you're looking at things. Yesterday, with the day off, (we) tightened things up, coaching staff wise, minimized some of the things to make sure that we can go out there and play fast, know what to do and play physical. That's what really, I'd say, the first few weeks are in the National Football League. We've done everything we possibly can do. We'll have a good day today. Friday, situational football. Go out there and try to compete and play as tough, physical, and smart football as we can.


It seems he recognized there was too much but while they may have pared down some did not simplify it enough or is not focusing on the types of plays he would really excel at.

Bottomline, DJ is NOT a QB that you can plop in any system and expect him to excel. He is a QB that seems like he will only flourish in a certain system. But if you actually run that system he has at least a chance to be a better QB than we are seeing now.

Goff was put in a good system under Ben that schemes guys open. Kerry was in a pretty good scheme under Fassel and Sean Peyton. Tua looks so much better(for the most part) under McDaniels. Even Darnold under McConnell played well and he had Mullens playing pretty good for 3 games last year when Cousins went down. Good OCs that truly tailor to the Qb can maximize their strengths even if they have a limited ceiling. Mayfield is yet another example of this in Tampa.

I hope Daboll makes the adjustments quickly rather than thinking he can force the issue some more until the players finally acclimate to it.

For better or worse DJ is our best option at this moment (if you get the offensive system right). Yet another season of embarrassing underachievement may hang in the balance.