Big Blue Huddle

Week 2 matchups

Bengals vs Chiefs
Broncos vs Steelers
Browns vs Jags
Cards vs Rams
Colts vs Packers
Commanders vs Giants
Falcons vs Eagles
Jets vs Titans
Panthers vs Chargers
Raiders vs Ravens

Hoping it's us. The rest I don't care about.

Jets and Commanders

Quote from: LennG on September 10, 2024, 10:09:55 AMJets and Commanders

I would add the Jags and the Ravens

Giants

Quote from: T200 on September 10, 2024, 09:38:12 AMHoping it's us. The rest I don't care about.

Really hoping it is us. Daboll needs to recognize closer to a 2022 gameplan that is simpler to execute gives us the best chance here.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on September 10, 2024, 10:42:58 AMReally hoping it is us. Daboll needs to recognize closer to a 2022 gameplan that is simpler to execute gives us the best chance here.

Unfortunately, a simplified game plan also makes it easier to defend. If the playbook is narrowed down to 5-10 plays, that's all the defense has to plan for. By mid-October, all the teams will know what we're doing.

They just need to ball out and Jones needs to find his sack.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on September 10, 2024, 10:42:58 AMReally hoping it is us. Daboll needs to recognize closer to a 2022 gameplan that is simpler to execute gives us the best chance here.

Did you watch last week's game?  The offensive gameplan couldn't get much simpler; in fact, it's so simple it's entirely predictable. The 2022 gameplan hasn't worked since week 8 of that year; I think some fans forgot we went 3-5-1 in our last 9 games, getting absolutely waxed by teams over 500 (with the exception of Minn).  Also, the 2022 gameplan doesn't work without Barkley.  Nothing is going to change until we acquire players capable of executing a modern offensive gameplan.

Quote from: kingm56 on September 10, 2024, 10:50:00 AMDid you watch last week's game?  The offensive gameplan couldn't get much simpler; in fact, it's so simple it's entirely predictable. The 2022 gameplan hasn't worked since week 8 of that year; I think some fans forgot we went 3-5-1 in our last 9 games, getting absolutely waxed by teams over 500 (with the exception of Minn).  Nothing is going to change until we acquire players capable of executing a modern offensive gameplan.

We will agree to disagree, Sir King. I will though agree at this point that while i hold out hope that a better fitting gameplan may help that it isn't a guarantee either. DJ might be cooked mentally more than anything else at this point.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on September 10, 2024, 10:55:17 AMWe will agree to disagree, Sir King. I will though agree at this point that while i hold out hope that a better fitting gameplan may help that it isn't a guarantee either. DJ might be cooked mentally more than anything else at this point.

What part do you disagree with? Do you honestly believe the Giants executed some sophisticated game plan last week?  They started out with multiple QB runs and stayed with a short passing attack, rarely challenging Minn weak defensive secondary.  I honestly don't believe we can execute a much simpler gameplan, unless you're going to run the ball 90% of the time...

Quote from: kingm56 on September 10, 2024, 10:58:25 AMWhat part do you disagree with? Do you honestly believe the Giants executed some sophisticated game plan last week?  They started out with multiple QB runs and stayed with a short passing attack, rarely challenging Minn weak defensive secondary.  I honestly don't believe we can execute a much simpler gameplan, unless you're going to run the ball 90% of the time...

Here is my reasoning which you probably won't fully agree with  but it's OK to disagree and still have respect for one another so it's all good! (I placed this most of this in the Daboll thread with some tweaks to better respond to your query)

In no way am I fully exonerating DJ at this point. It is clear he has limitations.

However The offense Daboll is trying to get him to run it seems he just cant run and I didn't love the receivers body language either.

The offense he ran in 2022: simpler route concepts , some motion but not overdone, misdirections, playaction with more clear reads and maybe less option routes was both easier for all the players as well as easier on DJ to execute. The offense Shurmur ran he could execute to the tune of 24td /12 ints in just 12 games (even though as a rookie he had a big ball security issue which has been cleaned up).

One executive when asked via the Athletic through Dan Duggan said essentially the same thing:

"Their best chance with Daniel Jones is to do what they did a couple years ago: Go heavy play-action, simple boots with simple reads, and scheme those guys to be open,"

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5743377/2024/09/05/nfc-rankings-49ers-packers-lions-nfl-executives?source=user-shared-article

Vilma ALSO brought this up during the broadcast in terms of highlighting that the receivers seem a bit tentative and confused out there as well.

Daboll himself seemed to recognize this PRIOR to the game and made a statement about it:

BRIAN DABOLL (from Satirdays presser): Yeah. Again, (we) put (in) a lot of hard work. Guys have done everything they could possibly do through OTAs, through training camp. Coaches spent a lot of time preparing for opening game. The unique thing about the opening game is you have 17 games plus additional information to look at. There's information overload at times as a coach when you're looking at things. Yesterday, with the day off, (we) tightened things up, coaching staff wise, minimized some of the things to make sure that we can go out there and play fast, know what to do and play physical. That's what really, I'd say, the first few weeks are in the National Football League. We've done everything we possibly can do. We'll have a good day today. Friday, situational football. Go out there and try to compete and play as tough, physical, and smart football as we can.


It seems he recognized there was too much but while they may have pared down some did not simplify it enough or is not focusing on the types of plays he would really excel at.


Now Daboll himself according to what I have been reading here sounds like he is putting some of the blame on himself AFTER Sunday's debacle (which he hasn't done too much of before).

Bottomline, DJ is NOT a QB that you can plop in any system and expect him to excel. He is a QB that seems like he will only flourish in a certain system. But if you actually run that system he has at least a chance to be a better QB than we are seeing now.

Goff was put in a good system under Ben that schemes guys open. Kerry was in a pretty good scheme under Fassel and Sean Peyton. Tua looks so much better(for the most part) under McDaniels. Even Darnold under McConnell played well and he had Mullens playing pretty good for 3 games last year when Cousins went down. Good OCs that truly tailor to the Qb can maximize their strengths even if they have a limited ceiling. Mayfield is yet another example of this in Tampa.

I hope Daboll makes the adjustments quickly rather than thinking he can force the issue some more until the players finally acclimate to it.


For better or worse DJ is our best option at this moment (at least potentially if you get the offensive system right). Yet another season of embarrassing underachievement may hang in the balance.

Giants, only because of who they are playing.  But, I am sure plenty of people out there are saying Washington will turn it around for the same reason.

Quote from: T200 on September 10, 2024, 10:49:36 AMUnfortunately, a simplified game plan also makes it easier to defend. If the playbook is narrowed down to 5-10 plays, that's all the defense has to plan for. By mid-October, all the teams will know what we're doing.

They just need to ball out and Jones needs to find his sack.

A somewhat simplified gameplan puts more onus on the play-caller to set the other team up well and take advantage of their weaknesses and tendencies . O'Connell did this great with Darnold and they are doing this with Mayfield too. It also allows they players to play more confidently and aggressively rather than over-thinking and being tentative.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on September 10, 2024, 11:11:47 AMHere is my reasoning which you probably won't fully agree with  but it's OK to disagree and still have respect for one another so it's all good! (I placed this most of this in the Daboll thread with some tweaks to better respond to your query)

In no way am I fully exonerating DJ at this point. It is clear he has limitations.

However The offense Daboll is trying to get him to run it seems he just cant run and I didn't love the receivers body language either.

The offense he ran in 2022: simpler route concepts , some motion but not overdone, misdirections, playaction with more clear reads and maybe less option routes was both easier for all the players as well as easier on DJ to execute. The offense Shurmur ran he could execute to the tune of 24td /12 ints in just 12 games (even though as a rookie he had a big ball security issue which has been cleaned up).

One executive when asked via the Athletic through Dan Duggan said essentially the same thing:

"Their best chance with Daniel Jones is to do what they did a couple years ago: Go heavy play-action, simple boots with simple reads, and scheme those guys to be open,"

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5743377/2024/09/05/nfc-rankings-49ers-packers-lions-nfl-executives?source=user-shared-article

Vilma ALSO brought this up during the broadcast in terms of highlighting that the receivers seem a bit tentative and confused out there as well.

Daboll himself seemed to recognize this PRIOR to the game and made a statement about it:

BRIAN DABOLL (from Satirdays presser): Yeah. Again, (we) put (in) a lot of hard work. Guys have done everything they could possibly do through OTAs, through training camp. Coaches spent a lot of time preparing for opening game. The unique thing about the opening game is you have 17 games plus additional information to look at. There's information overload at times as a coach when you're looking at things. Yesterday, with the day off, (we) tightened things up, coaching staff wise, minimized some of the things to make sure that we can go out there and play fast, know what to do and play physical. That's what really, I'd say, the first few weeks are in the National Football League. We've done everything we possibly can do. We'll have a good day today. Friday, situational football. Go out there and try to compete and play as tough, physical, and smart football as we can.


It seems he recognized there was too much but while they may have pared down some did not simplify it enough or is not focusing on the types of plays he would really excel at.


Now Daboll himself according to what I have been reading here sounds like he is putting some of the blame on himself AFTER Sunday's debacle (which he hasn't done too much of before).

Bottomline, DJ is NOT a QB that you can plop in any system and expect him to excel. He is a QB that seems like he will only flourish in a certain system. But if you actually run that system he has at least a chance to be a better QB than we are seeing now.

Goff was put in a good system under Ben that schemes guys open. Kerry was in a pretty good scheme under Fassel and Sean Peyton. Tua looks so much better(for the most part) under McDaniels. Even Darnold under McConnell played well and he had Mullens playing pretty good for 3 games last year when Cousins went down. Good OCs that truly tailor to the Qb can maximize their strengths even if they have a limited ceiling. Mayfield is yet another example of this in Tampa.

I hope Daboll makes the adjustments quickly rather than thinking he can force the issue some more until the players finally acclimate to it.


For better or worse DJ is our best option at this moment (at least potentially if you get the offensive system right). Yet another season of embarrassing underachievement may hang in the balance.

Well-reasoned and articulated. There's a reason you're my favorite uncle .  However, I think you would greatly benefit from the All-22 NFL+ package, which offers you a coach's view.  The Giants routes were as simple as possible; IMO, too simple.  It was clear DJ was working with one side of the field, as you could see his progression was limited to one or two reads.  Trust me when I say it can't get any simpler, Uncle M! This offense looks very similar to 2022.

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on September 10, 2024, 11:18:51 AMA somewhat simplified gameplan puts more onus on the play-caller to set the other team up well and take advantage of their weaknesses and tendencies . O'Connell did this great with Darnold and they are doing this with Mayfield too. It also allows they players to play more confidently and aggressively rather than over-thinking and being tentative.

I agree with you but it has a short shelf life. Once teams figured out Jones can't/won't throw deep, they adjusted how they play him. So if they know he's not going deep, why do you think defenders consistently jump the short routes? They KNOW that's where he's going with the ball.

I'd be interested to see how much double coverage Nabers gets this season with Jones at QB.